Team orders:you decide

[Dare]

By Kimi's words he thinks he was screwed....Symonds thought
otherwise but before the race even started a few in chat thought
this would happen

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/10896598/sebastian-vettel-denies-monaco-gp-winning-strategy-was-planned

[lkjohnson1950]

I said so in the other thread. They brought Kimi in when they knew he would come out behind Button and Wehrlein. That delayed him so Seb could open a gap. If he had stayed out another lap or two he would have had clear track and Seb's job would have been much more difficult.   

[Scott]

Problem is that he thinks the team is behind him, but in reality they are behind the team.  Ferrari needs this championship (as does Arrivabene to retain his job much longer), and they won't let a drivers wishes interfere with getting it.  From an HR crisis point of view, they might find Kimi less forthcoming in the closing stages of the season if Seb needs to pass Kimi for more vital points.

[J.Clark]

Kimi's first stop was a little slow.  I don't think they would have brought him in from the lead with the intention of putting him behind anyone to slow him down so that Seb could make up the time.

They may have considered team orders of a sort, but I believe that had the stop been down around the 2 second mark than 3.(something), Kimi would have been ahead of Button and Wehrlein, and Seb would have still probably been behind him. 

That said, Vettel had no one in front of him for several laps, running in clean air and having no traffic to deal with.  He may still have come out ahead of Kimi because of that, but to suggest that the team purposely put Kimi behind slower cars . . .   I am sorry, but that is absolutely absurd in my opinion.

[Scott]

I think it would have happened eventually in the race one way or another.  Ferrari need Seb to win because Kimi is too far behind.  They need Vettel to maximize every race if they have any hope in beating Hamilton, and need both to be in the top 3 or so to stay ahead of Merc in the WCC. 

You may be right that a bad pit stop played a part in Kimi ending up behind Button and Wehrlein, but as Lonny said, if they had waited a couple more laps, then even with a 3+ second pit stop, Kimi would have been ahead of that duo.  Unless Vettel had run into traffic, he could have leapfrogged Kimi in any circumstance, but there is just as likely the possibility that Kimi would have taken the place back if he had clear air right after his pit stop.  Hard to say, but if I was a strategist at Ferrari with those goals, I would have tried to slow Kimi down a bit, which ever way I could.  Sucks for him, but Seb took the early lead this season, so Kimi knows the deal and should probably just hope for a 3rd place this WRC.  Harsh, and I am a huge Kimi fan, but that is reality.

It is a nicer way to do it than a call over the radio to slow down and move over for Seb.

[J.Clark]

Perhaps, maybe even probably.

I like how Hamilton is trying to stir the pot. Hamilton's comments along the line that Ferrari has obviously picked their #1 driver, seem a bit out of line in my opinion.  It can serve no purpose other than to create animosity between the Ferrari duo.

[Scott]

Judging by past seasons, Hamilton is a lot easier to troll than Kimi or Vettel.  I doubt they will react or care at all what Lewis has to say.

But I think they HAVE effectively chosen their driver who has the best chance to win, and I think Vettel and Kimi both know who that is, regardless of what Hamilton has to say.  I guess that in the rest of the races, if one Ferrari is following another by the time the last pit stop rolls around, they will ensure that in the final stint Vettel will be ahead.

[Jericoke]

I can appreciate the need to ensure that the top driver gets the biggest amount of points towards the WDC, but it's a little short sighted.  We've seen in the past that intra-team battles are very exciting and draw attention (=money) to the sport.  Backing Vettel might ensure a WDC, but letting Kimi fight on even footing might sell more Ferraris.

[Dare]

Kimi was fired up after winning pole.He was a man with a mission
and IMO he got screwed. If Kimi thought it was his fault he's raced long
enough to know and he wouldn't look like someone p*ssed in the punch bowl
on the podium. I look for a different Kimi the rest of the year.

Watching the 500 yesterday you saw team drivers helping each other
during the race and they knew when the final laps were there it was every man
for himself....unlike Monaco!.How would the fans reacted if Michael Andretti on
tge final lap came on the radio with a Sato,Rossi is faster and had Sato pullover...
the fans would still be p*ssed off. IMO team order suck

[Andy B]

Kimi was fired up after winning pole.He was a man with a mission
and IMO he got screwed. If Kimi thought it was his fault he's raced long
enough to know and he wouldn't look like someone p*ssed in the punch bowl
on the podium. I look for a different Kimi the rest of the year.

Watching the 500 yesterday you saw team drivers helping each other
during the race and they knew when the final laps were there it was every man
for himself....unlike Monaco!.How would the fans reacted if Michael Andretti on
tge final lap came on the radio with a Sato,Rossi is faster and had Sato pullover...
the fans would still be p*ssed off. IMO team order suck

Is this not a continuation of Vettel's teammates?

[Dare]

Looking back it makes you wonder why Vettel left RB. After his golden years
he received a car not to  his liking and Daniel out performed him. Maybe  RB
wouldn't any longer give him #1 status. Looks likes he's getting it at his new home.

Reminds me of Alonso-Fisichella, Vettel-Webber, MS and any team mate. It does
seem like RB gives both drivers a equal shot and so far Ham and Bottas

[John S]

Of course it was team orders. 

My son and I discussed at length before the race started how Ferrari were going to get Vettel into the lead if he was 2nd to Kimi.  We debated just how the team would reverse the positions without the controversy that surrounded the 'Alonso is faster than you' episode.

We came to the conclusion that unless Kimi was already on board with allowing Vettel to pass him then the pit stop was the obvious route to swap them round - take just a second more on Kimi's tyre change - or leave Vettel out a few laps longer as clearly ultras were much faster than S/softs - or both! 

Well bugger me that's just what they did. 
Kimi's demeanour after the fact says he was not in on the fix. 

Team orders are still alive and well in Maranello.   

[Dare]

I'll have to give one thing to Vettel...he's able to keep a straight
face will telling us there's no team orders. Good on you Seb.

No other form of racing has this crap so why does F1?

[Alianora La Canta]

Because for the last 25 years, a significant and growing proportion of F1 fans have felt cheated when team orders have been used, especially among leaders (and even more so when it is early in the season). The turning point was Australia 1998, when David Coulthard was ordered to give up a win in the very first race of the season (due to a perfectly traditional, and generally accepted, "hold station" instruction going wrong and McLaren picking a bad way of fixing it). This managed to anger a lot of people and led to pretty much every team order ever since getting scrutinised and (except where absolutely necessary) derided.

I see the point of some team orders, but think there's a time and a place for them (and it's often nowhere near as extensive as F1 bosses think it should be). Teams orders going wrong, or getting disobeyed, never fails to make me laugh. Especially on the rare occasion that disobeying the team orders puts the team in a better position than following orders would have done.

[Dare]

Ali being a Fisichella fan like you I learned to despise team orders.
I remember countless times when Fisi had to give up his place.