Can Honda turn things around?

[Monty]

I cannot remember a time when a manufacturer has spread themselves so thin and it seems to be too much for Honda.
Their F1 involvement costs millions and brings them nothing but embarassment. They have now had a marketing disaster at the Indy 500 (but I think they are having some success in other US series??). They have not made any significant impact in World Touring Cars. Their World Superbike results are terrible and they are mid-pack in British Superbikes. At least they are getting good MotoGP results but still not outstanding.

Then there is their commercial record. Honda cars represent about 2% of the British car sales market but they do not have a single model in any of the top ten sales ratings. In the US I believe the Civic and the Accord are high in the top ten ratings but sales are dropping. In the Motorcycle world Honda do have models in some of the top ten ratings; in fact they often have two or three models in the top ten, but none of them are the prestigious and profitable Sports Bike categories.
Involvement in motor sport is normally justified by a manufacturer claiming that it helps their R&D which can roll out to road vehicles but we all know it is really about marketing.
Honda's marketing all seems to be negative!
Will they use outside help and spend the necessary development budgets to become successful or will they just pull out?

[cosworth151]

They have now had a marketing disaster at the Indy 500

They won the Indy 500. That makes for pretty good advert copy.

 

[Monty]

There is always one smart arse! 
I know they won the Indy 500 but in the context of F1 the marketing was all about Alonso, and his Honda didn't finish the race!
So I stand corrected and modify my comment to:-
In the context of F1, Honda's marketing all seems to be negative!

[Andy B]

Remember Toyota?
Big money brand that came into F1 and I think everyone expected good things from them but they were not able to make the grade and disappeared probably to never be seen in F1 again.
So can Honda do it?
I wouldn't put money on it!
If they do not turn it around in 2018 it'll be farewell!

[Jericoke]

Remember Toyota?
Big money brand that came into F1 and I think everyone expected good things from them but they were not able to make the grade and disappeared probably to never be seen in F1 again.
So can Honda do it?
I wouldn't put money on it!
If they do not turn it around in 2018 it'll be farewell!

I've posted before about Honda's goals in F1, and racing in general. 

Most car companies are in for the 'win on Sunday, sell on Monday' philosophy.  However, most consumers are well informed, and quite frankly I wouldn't trust the judgement of anyone who told me they bought a Chevy Silverado because of what happened at Daytona.

Surely Honda knows that too.  They've used their racing programmes as internal 'halo' jobs:  do a good job designing valve covers, and we'll let you design valve covers for race cars.  Is the guy who makes valve covers for a Honda Civic going to make the best valve covers in F1?  Probably not.  Is the guy who gets a chance to make F1 valve covers going to make the best valve covers in compact sedans?  There's a pretty good chance.

So Honda can afford to lose races as long as they have a pipeline of engineers who are willing to give their all for a chance to work on the F1 programme.  Honda may never match Ilmor in building race winning engines, but Ilmor will never match Honda in sheer volume of engines sold.

[Alianora La Canta]

Remember Toyota?
Big money brand that came into F1 and I think everyone expected good things from them but they were not able to make the grade and disappeared probably to never be seen in F1 again.
So can Honda do it?
I wouldn't put money on it!
If they do not turn it around in 2018 it'll be farewell!

Ooh, didn't Honda do something similar (if on smaller scale) at about the same time as Toyota?

[cosworth151]

10 years, first as BAR Honda and then just Honda. 1 win in that entire time. They were best know for having their junior team, Super Aguri, out perform them on a shoestring budget with year old, hand me down equipment.

[Dare]

There is always one smart arse! 
I know they won the Indy 500 but in the context of F1 the marketing was all about Alonso, and his Honda didn't finish the race!
So I stand corrected and modify my comment to:-
In the context of F1, Honda's marketing all seems to be negative!

F1   20 car-usually 2 Honda powerdnf
Indy 33 cars-9 Honda power  dnf

[Andy B]

Honda have not turned up to play second fiddle the question now is how long will they stay? 2018 has to be a good year for them as if it continues as it is we'll 4 DNF's not 2 and they'll be on their way.

[Scott]

If a company like Honda can't be competitive or even finish races if F1, could it be that the engine regulations are the problem?  At the moment if you aren't running the latest Merc or Ferrari, then you are fighting for crumbs.

Bring back open development and no more engine penalties.  Stop handcuffing the engineers.

[Robem64]

If a company like Honda can't be competitive or even finish races if F1, could it be that the engine regulations are the problem?  At the moment if you aren't running the latest Merc or Ferrari, then you are fighting for crumbs.

Bring back open development and no more engine penalties.  Stop handcuffing the engineers.

Well said that man, totally agree

[John S]

Bring back open development

That's essentially what they have done for this year. 

Sure you've still got grid penalties but Honda and Renault should have turned up with better engines at the start of the year. It's not like they weren't given notice that the regs were being lifted.

Ferrari have somehow got there heads around the issue, both with engine and chassis. If they can do it so can the others with the big budgets. F1 has always seen one team dominate for a season, 2 or even 3, then they get pegged back by another - and so on and so forth. This year is another tipping point, maybe in one or 2 years it will be Renault or Honda's time in the sunshine.

To me that's what keeps F1 refreshed, different teams bringing forward a faster car/engine than the rest. Sure the big budget works, or pseudo works, teams dominate but it moves around.

Weren't we having similar conversations about giving others a leg up when the big bull was striding the stage over many seasons a few years back? 

[cosworth151]

Yesterday Honda took won the first Detroit race. They took 7 of the top 10 spots.

[lkjohnson1950]

The success of Honda in IndyCar points out the rules differences: while both are V6 turbos, the IndyCar engine does not have all the energy recovery systems F1 does. Most manufacturers believe hybrids are the future for road cars which is why the current rules package was put forward. F1 also has much tighter aero packages which lead to cooling problems that IndyCar does not have.

[cosworth151]

Rahal just made it two for two at Detroit for Honda.