GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Robem64 on May 15, 2017, 07:36:07 AM
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Is this more sabre-rattling by the BRDC about costs again or more serious? Will Britain lose the GP altogether or would another track step in (Donington....again?)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-4503108/British-GP-threat-Hamilton-earns-Spain-pole.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-4503108/British-GP-threat-Hamilton-earns-Spain-pole.html)
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Cary has a point that Silverstone made a profit last year and is willing to help them achieve better revenues in the future.
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Cary has already been talking up yet another city street snooze fest for London. Silverstone stands in the way of his dreams of Pretty Building Parades, like Sochi two weeks ago.
In the words of The Who, "Here's to the new boss, Same as the old boss."
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Cary has already been talking up yet another city street snooze fest for London. Silverstone stands in the way of his dreams of Pretty Building Parades, like Sochi two weeks ago.
In the words of The Who, "Here's to the new boss, Same as the old boss."
I'm hoping Cary stays true to his word of not negotiating through the press. As much as I enjoy the proceedings, it's unseemly and generates bad press through what would otherwise be standard negotiation techniques.
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I could see the BRDC withdrawing as it has a much stronger suite of series than last time around - unless it is more impressed by the new leadership than it is willing to let on. (Given the BRDC, that is... ...pretty likely). As it stands, it will probably be a grouchy decade of staying at Silverstone with a circuit wishing negotiation was possible, before getting a new deal in the mid-2020s that won't be any cheaper than the current one due to inflation.
Donington? Don't make me laugh. I live 20 miles away and the roads couldn't take the Grand Prix, let alone the track!
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Donington? Don't make me laugh. I live 20 miles away and the roads couldn't take the Grand Prix, let alone the track!
I'm a Nottingham lad originally (only around 40 miles away now) and I agree - it makes Silverstone's infrastructure and transport links look modern. Although to be fair, they did get stiffed a few years ago when it looked like they were going to get the GP and started work to do so and then funding dried up. Personally I think they were used as a pawn by Bernie to leverage Silverstone.
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Donington? Don't make me laugh. I live 20 miles away and the roads couldn't take the Grand Prix, let alone the track!
I'm a Nottingham lad originally (only around 40 miles away now) and I agree - it makes Silverstone's infrastructure and transport links look modern. Although to be fair, they did get stiffed a few years ago when it looked like they were going to get the GP and started work to do so and then funding dried up. Personally I think they were used as a pawn by Bernie to leverage Silverstone.
They were. And thanks to the restoration work, it's a good national venue again now, with a nice homely feel. But there's no way it's fit to take on any sort of world-level race, especially not F1.
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Time to be controversial again :o
They are talking about having an F1 race in London. If you think access to Donnington would be limiting just think what access to London would be like! Also, have you ever tried to access the Monaco GP? Car parking is almost impossible and accessing ticketed areas needs real commitment and a very early start!
Donnington absolutely could handle F1. Could it do it as well as Silverstone? Absolutely not!
Silverstone has been improved over many years to be the only professional F1 Circuit in the UK.
I think the BRDC should sell the circuit to a good commercial operator life Jonathan Palmer who could help it operate profitably and then be able to meet the demands of F1.
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Access to Monaco by car is a challenge at the best of times. By train from neighbouring towns with plenty of parking is a piece of cake. For any downtown race in any series, the key is public transit and central hotels. As long as that is in place and efficiently run (unlike the Monza-Milan train line which goes on strike annually during the F1 race - usually with an announcement like 'The trains to Monza will not run for the next two hours due to a strike by railway workers' with no aforementioned notice). I love real race tracks, but I am not totally against the action, excitement and convenience of a downtown race here and there. I'll give anything a chance.
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Access to Monaco by car is a challenge at the best of times. By train from neighbouring towns with plenty of parking is a piece of cake. For any downtown race in any series, the key is public transit and central hotels. As long as that is in place and efficiently run (unlike the Monza-Milan train line which goes on strike annually during the F1 race - usually with an announcement like 'The trains to Monza will not run for the next two hours due to a strike by railway workers' with no aforementioned notice). I love real race tracks, but I am not totally against the action, excitement and convenience of a downtown race here and there. I'll give anything a chance.
The Montreal race is only accessible by subway. They know how to move people in and out too. I've waited longer in a 10 person line at McDonald's in the time they get 100,000 people off that island.
Instead of 'street' races, why not use park space in other major cities? It doesn't limit track design to existing streets. It doesn't shut down traffic along major roads ('Come visit our city, and see how we've made it impossible to do anything'). It provides the scenery of buildings AND nature. I get the appeal of running a race 'in the middle of it all', but how cool is the old footage of F1 races literally cutting through forests? It also provides F1 an opportunity to bump up their environmental bona fides by creating green space along the track.
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It's been tried. The 1981 & 1982 U.S.G.P. were run on a circuit set up in the parking lot at Caesar's Palace. CART ran there in 1983 & 1984. It was horrible. It has gone down in history at the worst F1 circuit ever. (Of course, that was before COTA)
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She said park, not parking :tease: :tease:
Toronto and Vancouver CART races were both in park settings including waterfront roads and part of the exhibition grounds from both cities. No way would I want to see a race run in a downtown grid of rectangular blocks, but London has some great straightaways along the Thames and then do a hairpin onto a bridge, along the other side...that sort of thing. I think it could be a fun race, at least until the BRDC works out what they want out of Silverstone and then comes back to the table. But of course by then there could be either a new or re-done track outside of the city again.
Honestly if the BRDC lets go of F1, it might never get it back.
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It's been tried. The 1981 & 1982 U.S.G.P. were run on a circuit set up in the parking lot at Caesar's Palace. CART ran there in 1983 & 1984. It was horrible. It has gone down in history at the worst F1 circuit ever. (Of course, that was before COTA)
As awful as the Vegas GPs were you've never been to Silverstone, sure it looks good on TV but when you are there it's impossible to see more than 3 corners, and that's from a few vantage points, for any race that takes place there. Silverstone is pancake flat and is not kind to actual race spectators. :nono:
Can't think how it's got the status of an real International race track. :P
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I could only see a few corners at most every road course I've ever been to. How many corners can you see from any one spot at LeMans? Spa? Sebring?
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Time to be controversial again :o
They are talking about having an F1 race in London. If you think access to Donnington would be limiting just think what access to London would be like! Also, have you ever tried to access the Monaco GP? Car parking is almost impossible and accessing ticketed areas needs real commitment and a very early start!
Donnington absolutely could handle F1. Could it do it as well as Silverstone? Absolutely not!
Silverstone has been improved over many years to be the only professional F1 Circuit in the UK.
I think the BRDC should sell the circuit to a good commercial operator life Jonathan Palmer who could help it operate profitably and then be able to meet the demands of F1.
London could easily manage the traffic level if the Olympics and Paralympics were anything to go by (unlike Donington, which physically cannot do so - the plan in 2010 involved getting 2/3 of the people to Donington by bus, such is the low capacity of the roads). A low-level international race like the Blancpain would probably pose little trouble to Donington, and it successfully manages a round of the BTCC (one of the most popular touring series in the world for attendance). But a F1 race would be 6-7 times the audience and that's another kettle of fish.
The question is whether London would wish to do so. After all, F1 is not the Olympics and I would expect the least car-using, environmentally-conscious citizens of the UK to be reluctant to put up with that kind of disruption on an annual basis.
Ironically, I have tried and failed to access Monaco (and it wasn't even race weekend). But that was because of a hotel operator that decided to lock me in their hotel and then try double-charging me for it, not because of any problem with the transport. Going there by car would be an exercise in futility, but unlike Donington (or Silverstone, for that matter - remind me to tell you about my bus journeys there on race weekends!), there's decent alternative travel available by train and bus, from either the Nice or Ventimiglia directions. London would be similar - anyone going there by car would be advised to park and ride, but that would be for increased convenience to the traveller, not because going by car is impossible.
Jonathan Palmer, via Octogan Motorsports, leased Silverstone once from the BRDC. He decided it wasn't profitable enough and handed it back (though there were several other complicating factors involved, including one of the few times Bernie Ecclestone was beaten at his own game). BRDC has tried selling the track three times over the last decade and failed, so that particular deal is a non-starter on multiple fronts.
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I wasn't trying to make a big thing about this, I am just making the point that Donnington could handle F1 (I am not suggesting it would be easy but definitely possible). I go to Donnington for BTCC and Motorcycle meets and feeding traffic in from the Motorway works reasonably well.
Ironically, a GP at Donnington would be a bit like the old GP's at Silverstone before they improved the roads!
Reference to London and other City races was just to point out that 'where there is a will there is a way!'
My only comment about the failed attempts to sell Silverstone is to say that the failures were not due to lack of interest but more due to the ridiculous valuation the BRDC put on the venue!
Clearly, Silverstone is the best venue for F1 and I really hope that it retains the British GP.
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Silverstone is flat, Monza is flat (except for the one little tunnel). Both have their pluses and minuses, but from a spectator point of view, flat is boring and limits viewpoints.
Barcelona was amazing for that. From our viewpoint we could see a gap to the front straight, giving us the sound and spectacle as the cars blurred past towards turn one, as well as turns 7-8 and the short spurt uphill to the entry of turn 7. If you wandered up for a hot dog or beer, you could see another section of track with the straight before turn 4, then turn 5 while you were waiting in line. All that for general admission. At Monza I could see one corner and the end or beginning of a straight in the three different places I sat and paid for seating (plus the food was 10x better at Barca).
...moral of the story, there is something to be said for a hilly track. I would rather see improvements at Donnington or Brands Hatch and move the British GP to either of those from boring Silverstone.
As for Monza, I don't know what I would do. Imola isn't much better than Monza as far as hilly-ness goes. Maybe Italy should build a track up near the Swiss border in the Italian Alps, but I could be biased. ;) ;)
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Vallelunga's pretty flat, but has the advantage that you could probably get 1000-2000 people onto the control tower. There you have practically a 360-degree view of the track! Elsewhere, unless you insist on sitting on the start/finish straight grandstand, expect a view of about 1/3 of the track at the time. It's also Grade 2, even if it is technically too short to become Grade 1 in its current state.
(Downside; nearly everyone has to stay in either Rome or Viterbo and drive into the venue, because there's neither much accommodation, nor much overnight parking, within about 10 miles of the track...)