GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => Pit Pass => Topic started by: Dare on September 05, 2017, 12:02:29 AM
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What do you think. On one hand it brings in a lot of money and
on the other it's a dog and if they keep it Alonso may leave
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I think Honda has finally overcome the token system that was holding them back, and will have a competitive engine by the end of 2017, and a race winner in 2018.
But I voted 'yes' because at this point I don't see that McLaren has a choice. Honda was clearly the wrong choice, doubling down on something that didn't work isn't going to attract sponsors or top talent. They have to show they're doing SOMETHING to improve, and switching engines is the easiest option. So even though I think ditching Honda is a bad move competitively, I don't know what else they can even do. (And it's not like the Renault engine will be a bad choice)
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McLaren have given Honda a good go but I think it's time for a slightly lower profile team to take up the batten. I think the idea that Toro Rosso may take the Honda and thus enable Red Bull to then monitor progress with the option to jump to Honda in the future may be a sound move.
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I look for the McLaren - STR engine swap to happen, too. It will give McLaren a usable engine (and a chance to keep Alonso) and give Red Bull leverage over Renault.
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The new Macca is more corporate now Ron has gone so making true racing decisions has I fear been diluted. I'm also not sure the new bosses care if Nando stays, well not enough to influence choice of engine, so my vote is to stay with Honda.
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I think they will likely switch, but I don't think it has that much to do with Alonso staying or going. They can't give him any assurances on next year's engine, just like they couldn't on this year's lump. They will switch because Honda's planned progression was not achieved.
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The new Macca is more corporate now Ron has gone so making true racing decisions has I fear been diluted. I'm also not sure the new bosses care if Nando stays, well not enough to influence choice of engine, so my vote is to stay with Honda.
I'm not disagreeing with what you say, but rather, 10 years ago could you imagine we'd talk about McLaren becoming MORE corporate? :crazy:
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Giancarlo Minardi thinks it is going to happen:
"During the delayed qualifying session at Monza, Zak Brown apparently signed an agreement with Cyril Abiteboul." Minardi said.
He also thinks Toro Rosso will pick up Honda. I wonder if he still has any inside info from his old team:
"As I say this, Honda's Yusuke Hawegawa is apparently flying to Japan to draw up the new program."
http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/giancarlo-minardi-believes-f1-mclaren-renault-deal-has-been-signed
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I'm saying "no" purely because McLaren has somehow acquired a talent for messing up absolutely everything. I'm half-expecting to hear something was signed, but some clause activated that prevented the actual engine deal going through and forcing McLaren to stay with Honda, leaving everyone quietly doing the headless chicken dance...
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F1i.com is reporting that a deal is signed for Macca to get Renault engines, Toro Rosso to be the Honda development team with the expectation Honda will get it's ducks in a row and supply R/B with good engines by 2019. Meanwhile Sainz goes to Renault, maybe as early as Malaysia and T/R agrees to run a Japanese driver as #2 to Kvyat.
http://en.f1i.com/news/279205-sainz-renault-mclaren-honda-divorce.html (http://en.f1i.com/news/279205-sainz-renault-mclaren-honda-divorce.html)
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Well, that experiment when badly. I will be interested to see how Mclaren chassis stacks up against the other Renault teams. The last few years have given them the Honda excuse, but no longer. Lets see what the aero department was up to during that time.
And of course now there is that other elephant in the room...is there an Alonso contract in that decision or not?
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If Red Bull goes with Honda in 2019, I wonder if it might be Honda's first step back to a factory team & Mateschitz's first step toward the exit.
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If Red Bull goes with Honda in 2019, I wonder if it might be Honda's first step back to a factory team & Mateschitz's first step toward the exit.
That certainly presents a host of questions. Taking over BAR was taking over a dysfunctional team, so Honda will be at least one step ahead of where they were last time they had a factory team. With all due respect, Christian Horner is no Ross Brawn, but we have seen how Horner is sometimes playing with a hand behind his back to appease Red Bull's upper management. It would be interesting to see what happens if he's given a little more free reign.
Even though Honda has been a disaster in their return to F1, I like that they haven't given up, and even if they aren't going to buy a team, I do like that the idea that it can be discussed. Personally I prefer the engine companies and the manufacturers remain separate (with a grudging historic exception for Ferrari), but as long as Mercedes and Renault are in, I'd like to see more companies step up.
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I'm not sure the Japanese are thick skinned enough to dive deeper in to buy a team at this point, at least until their engine is putting drivers on podiums. I think they probably have time to wait to see that happen before they put up the investment of an entire team.
I would like to see how Horner would do without Marko looking over his shoulder the entire time though. Clearly some of his worse decisions were pressured from above. I don't even think he likes Max - it always seems like an awkward smile when he talks to him.
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And another domino falls. The word is that Red Bull will dump Renault at the end of next season. In a triumph of optimism over history, it looks like they'll be going with Honda. I wonder how they'll feel if next season's Toro Rosso fares as well as the recent McLarens have. I suppose they could always slap another name on the Renault engines at the last minute......again.
The BBC asks if Danny Ric or Max V will be any happier with Honda "power" than Alonso is. That could really shake up the driver market.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41265779
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In a triumph of optimism over history
:DD :DD :DD :DD :DD No kidding...that's rather premature. I wonder how thick the envelope was that slid across the table to Marko while he was having lunch with Honda executives.
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Or, now that they have presumably secured McLaren, Renault may be tired of being blamed for all of R/B's failures and told them to p*ss off. :DntKnw:
http://en.f1i.com/news/279572-renault-red-bull-heading-split.html (http://en.f1i.com/news/279572-renault-red-bull-heading-split.html)
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Really, didn't RBR learn their lesson the last time? Don't blat about your new engine supply until it is an actual thing. The Renault was giving them at least a podium every couple of races.
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It's official. McLaren leaves Honda for Renault. Honda goes to Toro Rosso. Renault backed Carlos Sainz will leave STR & go to Renault, where he will replace Jolyn Palmer. Palmer has an iron clad contract (if there ever is such a thing in F1) so he will stay at Renault until the end of the season.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41142671
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It's official. McLaren leaves Honda for Renault. Honda goes to Toro Rosso. Renault backed Carlos Sainz will leave STR & go to Renault, where he will replace Jolyn Palmer. Palmer has an iron clad contract (if there ever is such a thing in F1) so he will stay at Renault until the end of the season.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41142671
Does that leave Kubica as the one left out of the shuffle? While it was a long shot for him to replace Palmer, it seems to be no shot at all to replace Sainz or Hulkenberg. I expect STR will promote another Red Bull young driver to replace Sainz.
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During FP2 coverage on NBC, they mentioned a rumor around the paddock that Williams were interested in him.
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It seems that the rumours are for Alonso, De Resta or Palmer to Williams so based on that it'll be someone else!
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I still think after such a catastrophic accident, he either has some range of movement problem or something else that doesn't allow him to perform at top levels for race distances. Renault must have some data after their test was negative.
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I still think after such a catastrophic accident, he either has some range of movement problem or something else that doesn't allow him to perform at top levels for race distances. Renault must have some data after their test was negative.
Age is not on his side either.
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They said on Channel 4 coverage of FP2 that Renault have released Robert from his test contract with them to allow him to look for other seats. They also hinted that Massa is getting impatient with Williams because he's in the dark about what"s happening for next year.
Is this as simple as connecting these two facts?
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Except I read that Claire Williams said they had no interest in Alonso or Kubica. Of course that could be smoke and mirrors.
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McLaren had no choice but to obtain a new engine. The car is good this year and it is being held back by the engine, but Alonso is the crucial piece in the jigsaw. He has a strong relationship with Renault from his two different stints at the team and the only way McLaren were going to keep him was to replace Honda. As a result, I think that Alonso will now remain at McLaren.
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Does that leave Kubica as the one left out of the shuffle? While it was a long shot for him to replace Palmer, it seems to be no shot at all to replace Sainz or Hulkenberg. I expect STR will promote another Red Bull young driver to replace Sainz.
As I understand it, Sainz is on a one-year loan to Renault. I think he's keeping Kubica's seat warm until Renault and Robert feel ready to proceed together (which I predict will be in 2019, but could potentially be 2020).
If the plan goes to plan (this is F1, so it probably won't), then in 2019, Kubica will partner with either Hulkenberg or Rowland (depending on whether Nico moves in next year's shuffle). Sainz will return to Toro Rosso, to partner Matsushita (who, according to the apparent plan, will be reserve driver for Toro Rosso). Gasly will almost certainly get promoted to Red Bull as replacement for whichever of Verstappen or Ricciardo finally gets picked up by Mercedes/Ferrari. Kyvat gets a stay of execution until the end of 2018, so that he can help train up Gasly and Matsushita.
My understanding is that Fernando Alonso is too expensive for Williams, and that Williams might, for a sufficiently low salary demand, now be willing to take a chance on Robert - due to increased confidence in Lance Stroll's ability to get points in the last few races combined with unexpectedly good test results on Robert's part last test. If the Williams deal doesn't happen, expect Robert to sign a fresh test-to-race contract with Renault on better financial terms than the one he previously had.
Hope that helps.
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I doubt Kubica will be back in an F1 car any time soon.
I have often been known to be wrong though!
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Or, now that they have presumably secured McLaren, Renault may be tired of being blamed for all of R/B's failures and told them to p*ss off. :DntKnw:
And heaven knows that McLaren would never blame a lack of performance on their engine supplier, especially if Alonso stays with them. ::)