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Author Topic: Will overtaking be near impossible this year?  (Read 1814 times)

Offline John S

Will overtaking be near impossible this year?
« on: March 01, 2010, 12:45:38 PM »

With the first race only a couple of weeks away I was suprised to read these comments from Schumi, in an Autosport article, about the difficulty of overtaking. Lewis and Michael were both on full race runs, Lewis was about 20 laps further into his workout than Schumi so was lapping about 1.5 to 2 secs a lap faster due to lower fuel, but he took at least 5 laps to pass.  :o

I have also added the relevant Autosport Live feed from Sundays testing to show how Lewis got held up following Schumi, it clearly states the fuel load and lap time differences.
The inference from Michaels comments and the apparent difficulty Lewis had in passing him does not give much hope for overtaking this year, any one else got any thoughts?.


Schumacher admitted he enjoyed the moment where Hamilton and him ran their own personal "race" during today's session, when both were running together during a long stint

"It was fun," said Schumacher. "It was interesting to see whether overtaking was possible. Obviously it was not possible as we were in different stages of our runs and tyres. At one point I felt there was no point because I was harming my own situation a little bit.

"I basically gave way and basically let him do what he wanted to do and I could continue with what I wanted to do."

Live feed from Barcelona Sunday

14:34 Hamilton is now into mid-1m22s lap, six laps after his last pitstop and 46 laps into the run.

14:35 Schumacher is on lap 26 of his race simulation, with five laps on his tyres, and dong high 1m24s.

14:39 Hamilton's times have slowed as he has got stuck behind Schumacher.

14:43 After five laps stuck under Schumacher's rear wing, Hamilton is past and into clear air.

14:47 With a clear track, Hamilton's times came down by 2s. The McLaren pit board says seven laps to go.

14:48 Schumacher is 36 laps into his run, 15 laps since his tyre change, and has just got down from mid 1m25s to high 1m24s.


« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 01:21:42 PM by John S »


Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Jericoke

Re: Will overtaking be near impossible this year?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2010, 01:42:34 PM »

With the first race only a couple of weeks away I was suprised to read these comments from Schumi, in an Autosport article, about the difficulty of overtaking. Lewis and Michael were both on full race runs, Lewis was about 20 laps further into his workout than Schumi so was lapping about 1.5 to 2 secs a lap faster due to lower fuel, but he took at least 5 laps to pass.  :o

I have also added the relevant Autosport Live feed from Sundays testing to show how Lewis got held up following Schumi, it clearly states the fuel load and lap time differences.
The inference from Michaels comments and the apparent difficulty Lewis had in passing him does not give much hope for overtaking this year, any one else got any thoughts?.


Schumacher admitted he enjoyed the moment where Hamilton and him ran their own personal "race" during today's session, when both were running together during a long stint

"It was fun," said Schumacher. "It was interesting to see whether overtaking was possible. Obviously it was not possible as we were in different stages of our runs and tyres. At one point I felt there was no point because I was harming my own situation a little bit.

"I basically gave way and basically let him do what he wanted to do and I could continue with what I wanted to do."

Live feed from Barcelona Sunday

14:34 Hamilton is now into mid-1m22s lap, six laps after his last pitstop and 46 laps into the run.

14:35 Schumacher is on lap 26 of his race simulation, with five laps on his tyres, and dong high 1m24s.

14:39 Hamilton's times have slowed as he has got stuck behind Schumacher.

14:43 After five laps stuck under Schumacher's rear wing, Hamilton is past and into clear air.

14:47 With a clear track, Hamilton's times came down by 2s. The McLaren pit board says seven laps to go.

14:48 Schumacher is 36 laps into his run, 15 laps since his tyre change, and has just got down from mid 1m25s to high 1m24s.




Or is this gamesmanship?  Michael IS the master, and Hamilton is a scion of Dennis through and through.  Was Hamilton really trying to pass?  Was Schumacher really in a slower car?  (Michael himself has said it's impossible to tell what other cars are doing out there, and comparisson is useless.)

Further, assuming everything Schumacher says is true, they weren't at the same 'point' in their races... Schumacher in a heavier car with fresh tires... he's going to corner better than Hamilton... that's going to make passing really tough.

I think what it does more than anything is provide information:  fresh tires might be worth an extra pit stop.

Offline John S

Re: Will overtaking be near impossible this year?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2010, 02:33:47 PM »

Jeri the point about gamesmanship is a valid one and Michael may be stirring things, however both the drivers were on full race simulations, admitted by their teams as well as the evidence of the laps, and had put new boots on about the same time.

It was Schumi's comments that made me take a second look at the info on the "Live feed" and it does appear to show that there was a difficulty for a much lighter car to overtake, suggesting to me that we may have some very processional races this year. Obviously I hope I'm wrong.





« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 04:30:31 PM by John S »
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Jericoke

Re: Will overtaking be near impossible this year?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2010, 02:58:54 PM »

Jeri the point about gamesmanship is valid a one and Michael may be stirring things, however both the drivers were on full race simulations, admitted by their teams as well as the evidence of the laps, and had put new boots on about the same time.

It was Schumi's comments that made me take a second look at the info on the "Live feed" and it does appear to show that there was a difficulty for a much lighter car to overtake, suggesting to me that we may have some very processional races this year. Obviously i hope I'm wrong.


It's true that passing has become tougher since Schumacher left F1.  I guess it's easier to defend with the grippier tires?  Or perhaps the aerodynamicists have just learned how make a car difficult to pass?

I did miss the part about them being on comparable tire wear (though no word on hard or soft from the transcript.  I suppose that could make a difference.)  At least they both have the same engines, so that part of the equation is taken out.

There would never be a real race situation with that disparity in fuel loads... perhaps the mercedes cars just handle better on heavy fuel?  (i.e., Shumacher would have been easier to pass as the car got lighter?) 

I know it seems unlikely, but I'm trying to be optomistic here  :-*

Offline raindancer

Re: Will overtaking be near impossible this year?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2010, 10:20:44 AM »
I think more overtaking will happen after the first 12 to 15 laps are over and the tyres start their degradation. However having said that, races are going to be professional with near sec calculation of fuel requirement as well as tyre wear.
All in all will this year be interesting just for sheer overtaking ! NO
Its all those world champions driving their butts of which will make this season more interesting than the last one. Which was boring frankly. Maybe it was the development season  :yahoo:
Don't Fight Forces ! Use them

david1275

  • Guest
Re: Will overtaking be near impossible this year?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 07:39:00 PM »
Surely come race day the cars will all have in and around the same fuel weight on board??So there won't be a case where a lighter car comes across a much heavier car, only difference will be in the rubber. I have to say I hold high hopes for the level of overtaking in the coming season. Maybe that just me being optimistic.

Offline Jericoke

Re: Will overtaking be near impossible this year?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2010, 08:02:06 PM »
Surely come race day the cars will all have in and around the same fuel weight on board??So there won't be a case where a lighter car comes across a much heavier car, only difference will be in the rubber. I have to say I hold high hopes for the level of overtaking in the coming season. Maybe that just me being optimistic.

The problem was that on comparable rubber, Hamilton's lighter (and 2 seconds a lap faster) car had a tough time passing Schumacher's heavier car.... if Hamilton had been in an equally weighted car, how much more trouble would he have had?

(What are the blue flag rules in testing anyway?  Were the teams in agreement that the drivers would 'fight it out' on the track?  If Hamilton wasn't on  a race simulation, Schumacher could have really buggered up McLaren's plans.

I still suspect a level of gamesmanship here.  And I love it)

Offline Scott

Re: Will overtaking be near impossible this year?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2010, 08:36:11 PM »
I don't think there are blue flags in testing, but just a general respect for each other's programs, which apparently Schumi forgot about.   >:(
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Will overtaking be near impossible this year?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2010, 12:51:42 AM »
I think this was Schumi getting into Lewis' head. Next time Lewis wants to pass he'll remember how hard it was.

Lonny
Lonny

Offline stealthhaggis

Re: Will overtaking be near impossible this year?
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2010, 06:52:21 PM »
Mind games won't affect Lewis. As for overtaking, if you include the new teams there will be loads of overtaking, sadly most of it under blue flags!

Offline Scott

Re: Will overtaking be near impossible this year?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2010, 07:03:48 PM »
As for overtaking, if you include the new teams there will be loads of overtaking, sadly most of it under blue flags!
:DD :DD


The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

FW14B

  • Guest
Re: Will overtaking be near impossible this year?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2010, 08:13:00 AM »
 :DD

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Will overtaking be near impossible this year?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2010, 04:15:40 PM »
I think this was Schumi getting into Lewis' head. Next time Lewis wants to pass he'll remember how hard it was. {lkjohnson1950 - 4 posts ago}

Yes - and then he'll:

a) remember that this means that passing Michael will require maximum effort, meaning he'll give it maximum effort and

b) Michael behind the wheel is not "there for a tea party", to slightly paraphrase what he said about himself back in 2000, and have absolutely no qualms about giving as good as he gets

Michael's mind game, if that's what it was, is very likely to backfire.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

 


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