Nothing changes at Ferrari

[John S]

Ferrari made the right call (though controversial) but in TOTALLY the wrong way.
They are in the championships to win and Fernando is the man in the position to do it. I dont remember such an uproar in 2007 when Raikonnen was "allowed" to win the WDC by being given victory by Massa at his home Grand Prix in Brazil to enable him to beat Lewis by 1 point.

What is the difference??

Andy

In Brazil Andy everyone knew the reason when it took place and expected it would take place if the circumstance arose in the race. Massa had no chance himself to win the WDC, also Massa had no problem with doing it.

In Hockenheim however Massa still had a chance to win the WDC himself and therefore he was being asked to give up his right to fight for the championship in favour of Alonso. When we are only halfway through the season this cannot be allowed to blatantly go on. It's race fixing, how would you feel if you had bet a large sum of money on Massa to win and lost your money?

[David]

Ferrari breaches the sporting regulations, they get a $100,000 fine.  Mclaren breaches sporting regulations, they get $100,000,000 fine.  Something's not quite right.  Oh yeah, Jean Todt is head of the FIA.

Come on Scott, not quite the same thing, and to suggest TJ would do such a thing is to mock the FIA.

[cosworth151]

Both Ferrari and RBR fixed the race for their favored driver yesterday. At least RBR was more subtle about it, releasing Mark into a pack of slower cars.

The WMSC make a ruling against Ferrari? Wow, what a concept!

[andyb]

It's race fixing, how would you feel if you had bet a large sum of money on Massa to win and lost your money?

Quite simply knowing how it all works i would not be stupid enough to put a bet on Massa to win. I would have backed him for a podium instead and an Alonso victory. Hold on, i could be good at this maybe i should take it up and make some money.

Andy

[Jericoke]

It's race fixing, how would you feel if you had bet a large sum of money on Massa to win and lost your money?

Quite simply knowing how it all works i would not be stupid enough to put a bet on Massa to win. I would have backed him for a podium instead and an Alonso victory. Hold on, i could be good at this maybe i should take it up and make some money.

Andy

True, it would be a far worse crime for Massa to let another team's car through.

However, if Ferrari is taking money to allow Alonso to pass Massa, then they should be banned from all motorsport, forever.  (I don't even suggest this allegation is being made though!)

[lkjohnson1950]

Much as I have criticized Red Bull for blatant favoritism I think yesterday was just bad timing for Mark, not a deliberate move by the team. Ferrari fixed the race as surely as Renault fixed Singapore, and really should be punished accordingly. When it's the last race of the season and the choice is let your team mate through for a championship or  give it to another team, that's different than midseason when both drivers have at least a mathematical chance to win. The WMSC should move to guarantee that neither Ferrari or Ferd wins a title this year.

Lonny

[David]

 Ferrari fixed the race as surely as Renault fixed Singapore, and really should be punished accordingly.

Ferrari didn't put anyones life at risk by switching positions on track, Renault did by crashing a car. Surely not the same?

Believe me no one is hurting more about what happened on Sunday than me as a Ferrari fan. My team win a 1-2 and I can crack a smile about it. 

However all the FIA can do is what they have done, slap them on the wrists. Every team does this in one way or another, it's just Ferrari were as subtle as a brick with their approach. 

[lkjohnson1950]

Every team will continue to do it until the FIA slaps a really big penalty on someone. Given that this is FERRARI, and they have some history, now would be a good time to start. Eliminate them from the WCC and Ferd from the WDC for this year and it won't happen again, or at least not so blatantly.

Lonny

[David]

Every team will continue to do it until the FIA slaps a really big penalty on someone. Given that this is FERRARI, and they have some history, now would be a good time to start. Eliminate them from the WCC and Ferd from the WDC for this year and it won't happen again, or at least not so blatantly.

Lonny

Sorry Lonny, way to big a penalty IMO. A 10 place grid drop or removal of their race points would be tops IMO. The last part of your post says it all "or at least not so blatantly", they all do it, the teams in the championship running anyway.

[Scott]

Did Fernando even have a hand in it?  He may have told the team he was faster (although not consistently, in my opinion), but in my opinion Massa is as much to blame as anyone simply for paying attention to such an instruction.  What would have happened if he HADN'T pulled aside?  Probably some Italian screaming in the motorhome, but I doubt it would have affected him in any other way. 

Penalize Massa in a huge way (no, David, it's not because I don't like him, but I think it would be more effective in ensuring that drivers don't pull over for teammates in the future, instructed to or not - seriously, that's all), and take away the WCC points for this race and maybe a couple more from Ferrari.  That would make Ferrari (or anyone else) think twice before asking a driver to, and would clear any driver of having to pay attention to their team's 'orders' again.

[Jericoke]

Did Fernando even have a hand in it?  He may have told the team he was faster (although not consistently, in my opinion), but in my opinion Massa is as much to blame as anyone simply for paying attention to such an instruction.  What would have happened if he HADN'T pulled aside?  Probably some Italian screaming in the motorhome, but I doubt it would have affected him in any other way. 

Penalize Massa in a huge way (no, David, it's not because I don't like him, but I think it would be more effective in ensuring that drivers don't pull over for teammates in the future, instructed to or not - seriously, that's all), and take away the WCC points for this race and maybe a couple more from Ferrari.  That would make Ferrari (or anyone else) think twice before asking a driver to, and would clear any driver of having to pay attention to their team's 'orders' again.

Seems harsh, but you're right, until there is a substantial penalty, it's going to keep happening.

We HAVE seen Alonso bully Massa on track though, and certainly that had to be going through his mind...

[JohnRichard]

IF YOU ARE FASTER THAN THE DRIVER IN FRONT OF YOU THEN PASS HIM OR SHUT UP! Provided the "slower" driver does not break the rules about blocking then quit your whining and RACE!

I couldn't agree with you more, Canada Darrell

[Monty]

Did Fernando even have a hand in it?  He may have told the team he was faster (although not consistently, in my opinion), but in my opinion Massa is as much to blame as anyone simply for paying attention to such an instruction.  What would have happened if he HADN'T pulled aside?  Probably some Italian screaming in the motorhome, but I doubt it would have affected him in any other way. 

Penalize Massa in a huge way (no, David, it's not because I don't like him, but I think it would be more effective in ensuring that drivers don't pull over for teammates in the future, instructed to or not - seriously, that's all), and take away the WCC points for this race and maybe a couple more from Ferrari.  That would make Ferrari (or anyone else) think twice before asking a driver to, and would clear any driver of having to pay attention to their team's 'orders' again.

We can't be sure how much Alonso is to blame (unless anyone has heard more radio transmissions than me) but it was clear he was telling the team that he was faster and that Massa should let him pass, with the 'this is ridiculous' transmission coming just a few laps before Massa was told to yield. In my opinion the whole thing was caused by yet more of Alonso's bullying tactics which have been seen several times this year and were apparent when he was with Maclaren. I completely disagree with any suggestion that Massa was at fault or should be penalised. Based on a long and well recorded history Ferrari are well known to impose draconian management styles. If Massa failed to comply with instructions they could have stopped him from driving for the rest of his contract or really put him in a number two driver situation where he was never given the chance to properly race Alonso again. He had no choice but to do what he had been told.

[Scott]

You missed my point, Monty.  Penalizing Massa would prevent both the team from issuing orders, and also prevent drivers from paying attention to them.  Not because of what Ferrari would do to him if he didn't oblige.

[John S]

You missed my point, Monty.  Penalizing Massa would prevent both the team from issuing orders, and also prevent drivers from paying attention to them.  Not because of what Ferrari would do to him if he didn't oblige.

The only trouble with your plan Scott is that Massa is now effectively stuffed for a personal run at the WDC this year so it will hardly matter if he loses more points, the same will apply to other drivers who are openly regarded as no 2 in their teams. The drivers all fear losing their drive in F1 more than the points loss, so the only real answer is to take points off both of the offending team drivers. No one will ask for their teamate to be moved over then.