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Author Topic: Schumacher: The Lunatic  (Read 12990 times)

Offline SennaMan

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Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2010, 12:52:02 AM »
All I have to say guys is your over reactions remind me of tabloid newspapers baying for blood. This is racing and it's not the first, and probably not the last time, for a display of tough track action.

Sure Schumi squeezed Rubens to the limit, but like Vettel on Mark a bit earlier in the year Barrichello kept his boot in and was just as determined as Vettel that he was coming through. On this occasion there was no contact  between cars or the wall, so however much you want this to be a hanging offence Rubens must have had enough space even though it was a huge brown trouser moment for him.

Michael is not blameless obviously and as he was already out of the points a grid drop for the next race is the only answer, however the 'New Men' Stewards 10 place drop clearly shows F1 is no longer a real mans sport.  IMO a 5 place drop should be quite enough, we'll be seeing Brian Barnhart's no blocking rule from Indy brought in next.

c'mon John - "tough racing" is one thing but deliberately driving a fellow competitor right off the track into the proximity of a concrete wall quite another

...especially as prior to this MS, [an apt acronym for a horrible degenerative disease BTW], had been blatantly blocking RB anyway

....and isn't there already a regulation in F1 allowing you to move one time and no more on a following driver? I remember lewis HAMILTON being fined/penalised for blocking in a race this year

I actually blame this win-at-all-costs nonesense on my hero ayrton SENNA, who twice pulled identical moves on his team mate PROST, and I have always thought in a lot of ways, michael SCHUMACHER modelled himself on ayrton.

However, SENNA unlike SCHUMACHER had an engaging and charismatic personality and people all over the world loved him, even those who had no interest in F1.

I have always admired michael for his amazing achievements in F1 and for raising standards of dedicated professionalism in the sport. He did for F1 what tiger WOODS has done for golf; well on the course if not away from it!

But love him or think of him with affection?

NO WAY!

...and isn't that the real tragedy about michael SCHUMACHER and his legacy?  
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 12:54:27 AM by SennaMan »
"In a Democracy, civil dissent and even disobedience is a responsibility and a duty. Indeed, the extent dissent is tolerated is in itself a test of a Democracy."

Bruce Elton Foulds - 2010.

Offline Scott

Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2010, 10:42:07 AM »
We can't expect any more penalty...after all, for Todt, Schumacher is the son he never had...oh wait, he had a son...he is the tall son Todt never had.   :P :P 
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline John S

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Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2010, 12:16:09 PM »

I actually blame this win-at-all-costs nonesense on my hero ayrton SENNA, who twice pulled identical moves on his team mate PROST, and I have always thought in a lot of ways, michael SCHUMACHER modelled himself on ayrton.

However, SENNA unlike SCHUMACHER had an engaging and charismatic personality and people all over the world loved him, even those who had no interest in F1.


So it's ok to pull strong arm tactics on other drivers if you have an engaging personality and the public love you, what tosh, this is motor racing we are discussing not an episode of an 'F1's got talent' show.

I agree that Michael's move was over the top but I am honestly suprised about the level of vitriol over the incident from posters in this topic. I stick to my point that F1 is and always has been a tough game, sure Michael sqeezed too far, Rubens could have backed out - however he chose not to. It's just a bit rich to blame Schumi alone for the danger during the pass.   

For me these quotes from both drivers, in an Autosport piece, sum up the fact that both drivers were playing hard ball with each other, something we usually applaud in F1.

 Rubens - "I have a lot of experience and usually with a crazy guy like that I would lift off, but not today, absolutely not," Barrichello told Spanish network La Sexta right after the race.

"I think it has been one of the most beautiful manoeuvres I've done and one of the most horrendous from him. At the end of the day we don't need that.

Schumacher shrugged off the incident, however.

"This is F1," Schumacher told Italian television RAI when questioned about his move.

"I think I left him too much room because he passed."



Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Monty

Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2010, 01:04:26 PM »
Well many of you know that I'm a huge Schumacher fan......I cheer everytime he gets beaten by his team mate, everytime Massa overtakes him, everytime he goes off the track due to his own lack of talent. I had a particularly loud cheer when he got lapped on Sunday.
All in all I think he is singularly the worst thing that has ever happened to F1 and the sooner he leaves (never to return) the better.
I can accept people disagreeing with me but I cannot understand anyone trying to defend his actions this weekend.
Senna did make some deliberate moves that were sure to 'stop' his challenger and I didn't think such moves were necessary or acceptable from such a talented driver. However, as far as I can remember all of his 'stay in front or crash' tactics were carried out in first gear corners at very slow speeds.
Shumacher thinks nothing of such tatics at 100+mph which is crazy. He has been driving more dangerously than ever this year and on Sunday he surely went one step too far for anyone.
It was clear to everyone that he was watching in his mirror. He waited for Rubens to get alongside and then steered to the right pushing the Williams into the dust and debris and very close to the wall. Rubens could easily have lost control just because of the dirt. If he had hit the wall it is likely that he would have been killed and who knows where the car would have gone. There could have even been more deaths in the pit area. All of this for 1 point! It is time for Schumacher to be removed from the 'sport' >:(

Offline stealthhaggis

Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2010, 03:52:29 PM »
Well many of you know that I'm a huge Schumacher fan......I cheer everytime he gets beaten by his team mate, everytime Massa overtakes him, everytime he goes off the track due to his own lack of talent. I had a particularly loud cheer when he got lapped on Sunday.
All in all I think he is singularly the worst thing that has ever happened to F1 and the sooner he leaves (never to return) the better.
I can accept people disagreeing with me but I cannot understand anyone trying to defend his actions this weekend.
Senna did make some deliberate moves that were sure to 'stop' his challenger and I didn't think such moves were necessary or acceptable from such a talented driver. However, as far as I can remember all of his 'stay in front or crash' tactics were carried out in first gear corners at very slow speeds.
Shumacher thinks nothing of such tatics at 100+mph which is crazy. He has been driving more dangerously than ever this year and on Sunday he surely went one step too far for anyone.
It was clear to everyone that he was watching in his mirror. He waited for Rubens to get alongside and then steered to the right pushing the Williams into the dust and debris and very close to the wall. Rubens could easily have lost control just because of the dirt. If he had hit the wall it is likely that he would have been killed and who knows where the car would have gone. There could have even been more deaths in the pit area. All of this for 1 point! It is time for Schumacher to be removed from the 'sport' >:(

Well said Monty.

Martin Brundle actually summed it up rather well, if Schumacher ever wanted to be considered the greatest driver of all time all he had to do in his career was cut our all the dangerous moves. He would have won 1 less championship and a few races but would have been revered as the greatest driver of all time. I, like Monty, am not his biggest fan and for me this is a classic Schumacher manoeuvre only now he is distinctly average whereas before he at least had the pace to go with it. I would normally try and not jump on the lynching bandwagons when they pass by but in this case it's the final straw. As for using the 'Senna' argument, c'mon guys, you're talking about a guy who every other driver out there knew would slam the door shut tight unless you made it stick. He never made a move then another move when the driver was alongside, no other driver does that. In fact if any driver came into F1 and did that they would never race again. What Schumacher did was not only dangerous to himself and Rubens but to any marshal or crew near the end of the pitlane. It was pure arrogance and to be that condescending about Rubens at the end was tragic. Whatever reputation he had before will be tarnished even further with this. Quite frankly I'm delighted as people are seeing him for being the dirty little cheat that he is!

I was doing ok till the end there!  :D

Offline Scott

Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2010, 05:28:05 PM »
The Lunatic apologizes...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85828

I musta missed the part about "I'll try not to let it happen again"  :DntKnw:
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Williamsfan

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Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2010, 08:55:18 PM »
I wonder who forced him into that move? 

Offline stealthhaggis

Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2010, 09:10:19 PM »
Well it wasn't Rubens.....  :DD

David

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Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2010, 09:59:08 PM »
Well with that admission of guilt, along with a glimmer of humility he has at least gained a few brownie points back with me. His attitude after the race yesterday stank, and made me even more angry than witnessing the move itself. I still wish at this stage that he had stayed retired so my memories were not soiled.

David

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Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2010, 10:09:13 PM »
His statement on his website doesn't exactly read like an apology.  :DntKnw:

http://www.michael-schumacher.de/?page=news&story_id=&lang=uk

Offline Willy

Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2010, 02:22:50 AM »
All I have to say guys is your over reactions remind me of tabloid newspapers baying for blood. This is racing and it's not the first, and probably not the last time, for a display of tough track action.

Tough track action!
Not a chance is that to be  concidered a racing incident.

Schumacher has always been dirty and would pull any underhanded move to better his postion, no matter the cost to the other drivers.
He got away with it because of who he was (was!!).
Not anymore. He has no business being allowed back into a race seat the remainder of this season, or any other.
The man is a menace.

Offline SennaMan

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Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2010, 02:58:49 AM »

I actually blame this win-at-all-costs nonesense on my hero ayrton SENNA, who twice pulled identical moves on his team mate PROST, and I have always thought in a lot of ways, michael SCHUMACHER modelled himself on ayrton.

However, SENNA unlike SCHUMACHER had an engaging and charismatic personality and people all over the world loved him, even those who had no interest in F1.


So it's ok to pull strong arm tactics on other drivers if you have an engaging personality and the public love you, what tosh, this is motor racing we are discussing not an episode of an 'F1's got talent' show.

nah John I did not say that  - dirt is dirt and dangerous moves are dangerous moves -  and please stop putting words into my mouth and making up a false 'strawman' for you to easily shoot down
  :P

I agree that Michael's move was over the top but I am honestly suprised about the level of vitriol over the incident from posters in this topic.
not only here John, but the condemnation has now gone global or is that viral, with a few ex F1 drivers like Lauda and IRVINE weighing in against MS
[/b]

I stick to my point that F1 is and always has been a tough game, sure Michael sqeezed too far, Rubens could have backed out - however he chose not to. It's just a bit rich to blame Schumi alone for the danger during the pass.   

For me these quotes from both drivers, in an Autosport piece, sum up the fact that both drivers were playing hard ball with each other, something we usually applaud in F1.

 Rubens - "I have a lot of experience and usually with a crazy guy like that I would lift off, but not today, absolutely not," Barrichello told Spanish network La Sexta right after the race.

"I think it has been one of the most beautiful manoeuvres I've done and one of the most horrendous from him. At the end of the day we don't need that.

Schumacher shrugged off the incident, however.

"This is F1," Schumacher told Italian television RAI when questioned about his move.

"I think I left him too much room because he passed."

each to there own John but I just have to disagree with you this time. ::) 8)
"In a Democracy, civil dissent and even disobedience is a responsibility and a duty. Indeed, the extent dissent is tolerated is in itself a test of a Democracy."

Bruce Elton Foulds - 2010.

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2010, 08:59:25 AM »
MS is and always has been ruthless. Senna was the same way, and yes he would use 2 or 3 moves, including taking you right off the track to keep you from passing. MS had 2 great talents, an ability to go very fast out in the open when he had to, and I believe he might be the best test driver ever. I said before the season started that not being able to test would hurt him more than any of the other drivers, and I think we are seeing that. I doubt you would have seen that kind of move from any of the drivers of the '60s, and if anyone had tried it, Clark, Brabham or Hill were perfectly capable of bruising a rib or blackening an eye for the offender out behind the garage. A different breed.

Lonny
Lonny

Online Dare

Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2010, 12:56:15 PM »
I think it was blown out of proportion as well
John.Rueben's in his mind feels he was slighted
by Ferrari and Michael and uses every chance
to remind the world of it.This is racing and Rueben's
knows how Michael drives and had the chance to back off.
Mark Twain once opined, "it's easier to con someone than to convince them they've been conned."

Offline Ian

Re: Schumacher: The Lunatic
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2010, 01:34:04 PM »
Got to disagree Dare, I've always supported MS, and some his deeds in the past were no worse than othe drivers have done, but this time he was watching Ruby and I have no doubt he tried to put him into the pitwall.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

 


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