F1 lets itself down again....

[markfarrell9572]

Why can't F1 go a season without having some sort of controversy where it seemingly shoots itself in the foot?  After constant rule clarifications (and therefore regulation changes) regarding blown diffusers throughout the weekend we now go to Germany with cars in the same spec as they were in Valencia.  To get the cars exactly as they were two weeks ago we've seen some team principals row in public, for what?

Also we had a team which claim they never employ team orders hold a quicker driver behind his slower (today) team mate.  I don't believe for one minute they would be stupid enough to take each other off again, and the team's points haul would have been the same had Mark finished ahead of Seb. 

While the racing was ok, it was off track (again) that F1 let itself down.

[Jugirl]

From where I was sitting it looked blatantly as if Webber had been told "Don't you dare pass Vettel"

Team orders??? I think if it was a Ferrari a bit of stink would have occurred.

Like you say, Red Bull would have scored exactly the same points and Vettel is So far in front what was the harm in Webber overtaking him with the aid of the DRS so there was no chance of a collision??

As for the diffuser, it's all a bit of a shambles

Ju

[Canada Darrell™]

The only thing missing from the RB radio communication to Webber was "do you understand?" 

[Scott]

Don't forget team orders are allowed this year, but that said, Webber said he was ignoring the radio calls, he just couldn't get past...another lap or two and it would have been another story (and probably a re-assessment of Webber's contract for next year).

[Jugirl]

Team orders may be allowed this year but the point is were they necessary? In this case no. Vettel is so far in front and I think Webber was just trying to make a point that he could pass but was doing as he was told.

Personally I think he should have stuck one up the inside and told Horner where to stick his team orders.

Ju

[Scott]

 ...and told Horner where to stick his team orders.

Ju

I think he did that quite clearly in the post race press conference.

[Cam]

As a Ferrari fan I find Red Bulls hypocrisy regarding team orders breathtaking. 

As far as the blown diffuser saga goes, it is the exact opposite of F1 shooting itself in the foot.  In F1 controversy is marketing.

[Canada Darrell™]

As a Ferrari fan I find Red Bulls hypocrisy regarding team orders breathtaking. 

As far as the blown diffuser saga goes, it is the exact opposite of F1 shooting itself in the foot.  In F1 controversy is marketing.

Just curious what hypocrisy are you referring to? Last years "do you understand" incident when team orders were forbidden and RB, along with many others, condemned Ferrari for it?

Now that team orders are legal and allowed what is the issue with RB taking advantage of the rules?

I think the big beef most of us had last year with Ferrari's handling of the incident was the blatant way they sent the message to Massa and the way it made F1 look. Sure, everyone knows that most of the teamS were doing it but in a far more subtle way. 

[Cam]

As a Ferrari fan I find Red Bulls hypocrisy regarding team orders breathtaking. 

As far as the blown diffuser saga goes, it is the exact opposite of F1 shooting itself in the foot.  In F1 controversy is marketing.

Just curious what hypocrisy are you referring to? Last years "do you understand" incident when team orders were forbidden and RB, along with many others, condemned Ferrari for it?

Now that team orders are legal and allowed what is the issue with RB taking advantage of the rules?

I think the big beef most of us had last year with Ferrari's handling of the incident was the blatant way they sent the message to Massa and the way it made F1 look. Sure, everyone knows that most of the teamS were doing it but in a far more subtle way. 

It is nothing to do with whether team orders are allowed or not.  The hypocrisy is that Red Bull took a very strong moral stance about "our drivers are free to race each other" at that time.  I know they were just taking the opportunity to kick Ferrari when they were down, along with all the other red bashers around the place.  And now here is Christian Horner justifying his actions using exactly the same language Ferrari has used in the past.  The criticism of Ferarri way back in Austria (2001?) was that making Rubens move over for Michael was unnecessary because Schumi had the championship in the bag anyway.  Exactly the same could have been said for Vettel yesterday.

The hypocrisy is that Red Bull drivers are clearly not "free to race each other". 

[Ian]

I'm not a lover of team orders, but I think Horner made the correct decision, everybody knows it's the constructors points that bring the money in, imagine if they had been allowed to race at that late stage of the race and took each other out, result, no points at all and red faces all around.

[Jugirl]

I agree with you Cam. Red Bull drivers are blatantly not allowed to race each other. I know Ferrari did it last year with Alonso, in embarrassing circumstances, but at least they were backing the driver who could challenge for the title and look how close it got them!

I was sitting at the end of the DRS zone at Brooklands corner and Vettel was so slow he was hunting for the wet patches down the straight. With DRS and KERS Webber could have simply driven passed him with no risk or issue at all. He was simply not allowed to and that is why he didn't use his KERS down that straight on the last lap! If Webber would have overtaken Vettel he would have still been 74 points behind. What is the problem?? Also I don't think there would have been a crash because Vettel, who seems smarter this year, would realise 15 points is more than enough to keep him on course for the title, probably given Mark a little extra space and not defended as hard as if it was Hamilton or Alonso. If he didn't he would have been the idiot in this case as all he needs to do is finish well and third is good enough.

I totally agree with Damon Hill in the interview after as well when he said" Let the drivers race as the fans pay to see them do so"
I know for a fact all the fans near me were not discussing Ferrari winning but Red Bull and there team orders. It was so obvious we could see and none of us had the commentary.

As for you Horner, If you ever get bored of your job let me know I will do it. How easy is it to manage ONE driver and talk Bull (and i don't mean the Red sort) in press conferences

Ju

[John S]

I feel Christian made the right call, but for a less obvious reason. IMO he was worried that Seb would do something stupid when Mark put the overtake move on him. I think in private he may well be thinking and probably saying to Mark, - I trust you to play fair but can't vouch for Seb's red mist moments - or somthing similar. 

Anyway, two laps from the end with no threat behind most teams would expect, and may have already ordered pre-race a hold station finish, unless of course one driver must have the points for the WDC. I think most teams allow teamates to race each other until the final pit stop, then it's stay in order if there's no threat behind or chance of gain on cars ahead.



 

[cosworth151]

I still think that "team orders" is race fixing. Ask most fans who's leading in the F1 standings. Far and away the most will say Vettel and not Red Bull. What next, we go back to the days when second drivers have to give up their cars if the team leader looses his car?

[Jugirl]

I still think that "team orders" is race fixing. Ask most fans who's leading in the F1 standings. Far and away the most will say Vettel and not Red Bull. What next, we go back to the days when second drivers have to give up their cars if the team leader looses his car?

I totally agree. All the fans near me were talking about Lewis or Jenson not McLaren etc. Lets just say the Lewis fans were not that bothered when Jenson lost his wheel, in fact some even cheered. A lot of the fans look at the drivers first and the team second, look at me with Fernando     hehe

Ju

[Jericoke]

I still think that "team orders" is race fixing. Ask most fans who's leading in the F1 standings. Far and away the most will say Vettel and not Red Bull. What next, we go back to the days when second drivers have to give up their cars if the team leader looses his car?

I totally agree. All the fans near me were talking about Lewis or Jenson not McLaren etc. Lets just say the Lewis fans were not that bothered when Jenson lost his wheel, in fact some even cheered. A lot of the fans look at the drivers first and the team second, look at me with Fernando     hehe

Ju

Team orders for one driver to pull aside to let their teammate pass are very unsporting. Whether they are allowed or not, they make the race look like a farce.

Team orders for one driver to maintain their position are more palatable.  They didn't ask Mark to let Seb through, 'just' to make sure nothing stupid happens.