F1 lets itself down again....

[markfarrell9572]

I don't think F1 thrives on controversy.  No sport should.  There was no reason for Red Bull's team orders yesterday, many fans support a particular driver not a team, so for the Webber fans, they were denied a good result for their driver.  The diffuser thing was just clumsy stupid, confusing, badly handled, and for what?  Basically so McLaren could be handicapped in qualification at the British GP, and in two weeks we go back to how it was a month ago.  As for Bahrain, how was that controversy in any way good for F1?

Does anyone in F1 actually listen to what we (the people who pay for them to do what they do) want? 

Monsieur Todt?  You listening?
How about you Mr Ecclestone?
Mr Whiting?
Surely you are Mr Whitmarsh?
No?
Senior Domenicalli?
You're not?
Ah!
You are Mr Williams? Surely?
Dr Kolles, you must want to listen to what we want?
Mr Sauber, you seem a reasonable man?
Ah you do what Senior Domenicalli says, I understand.
Herr Tost, please?
Yeah i know you're paymaster is red Bull but..
I guess no point asking you Mr Horner?
Mr Branson? Mr Booth?  Mr Fernandes?
Ross Brawn, how about it? Listen to us, please?
 
All we want is for you all to agree to stop dragging the sport through the muck.

[Wizzo]

I see two sides to the superb race at Silverstone.

1. Horner clearly gave team orders for Webber to maintain his distance and not to overtake Vettel. If I was the Red Bull manager I would have made the same decision and put in that position I doubt many of us would choose differently. Well done to Horner for doing whats best for the team and ensuring maximum constructor points and extending his drivers lead in the championship.

2. If you are a non F1 fan then the idea of team orders, (compared to most other sports), is just madness. Team orders make F1 a laughing stock and I am regularly dragged into conversations about this very subject with non fans demanding to know How they can get away with it? and more importantly 'Why do I bother watching it?'

My humble opinion: I watch F1 to see the best drivers in the world race each other and the best of the best become world champion. I truly believe that team orders takes something away from F1, we never used to have them and the sport was better for it. Alas I think they are here to stay and is something we will all have to live with.

F1 teams need sponsors to survive. Sponsors want points for maximum return on their investment. I hope the sponsors don't forget they get their money from us, the fans and this fan just wants to see racing at it's best.

Wizzo

[Scott]

Good summary Wizzo - of course Horner could have also given Vettel the message Massa got last year, but I suppose then Vettel would have ignored his radio as well.   

[Dare]

Team orders have always been around but they were looked
at differently than now.

Even Jackie S said that in the 73 season Cevert could
have passed him anytime he wanted in a few races,but
didn't

[lkjohnson1950]

I think you will find that while the people in F1 give lip service to the fans, privately they feel we are lucky to be able to watch as they go about their business. If the sales of Red Bull took a nose dive this week, you could bet there would be no team orders at the next race. That's the only thing they understand. Sportsmanship does not exist anymore, and hasn't for some years, probably since Chapman painted his cars red and gold.

Lonny

[Cam]

Just to shed further light on why I called Red Bull, and Christian Horner in particular a hypocrite here are a few quotes from and article on the autosport website (26 Jul 2010)  titled

"Horner laments 'manipulated' race

Horner says the sport was the big loser and feels Ferrari had no reason to do what it did.

"It's a great shame for Formula 1 that the race was manipulated to give one driver a victory over the other," Horner told AUTOSPORT.

"We came in for a lot of criticism in Istanbul for allowing our drivers to race but I think that it's the fair and sporting thing to do.

"The only losers today are Formula 1. Ferrari are a big enough team that they shouldn't need to do that and Fernando is a good enough driver not to particularly at this point in the season when there are still hundreds of points available."

Horner admitted he felt sorry for the fans who missed the opportunity to see Ferrari's drivers racing each other.

"It's a great shame. Ferrari are a great team," he said. "It's a shame for Formula 1 that they didn't allow Felipe and Fernando to race each other. There are not so many points between them and it was so obvious how they moved the cars around.

"The biggest losers are the fans, the spectators, the viewers as a race win was handed to Fernando. Rightly or wrongly, we've allowed our drivers to race because we believe that's the sporting thing to do and it also is within the regulations."

Every single comment could be applied to what Red Bull did on Sunday.  Like I said . . . . .

[Scott]

No kidding - good find Cam.  I had forgotten how outspoken he was then.  What a knob.   

Someone should send it to him.  I posted it on their Facebook page 

[Jugirl]

Just to shed further light on why I called Red Bull, and Christian Horner in particular a hypocrite here are a few quotes from and article on the autosport website (26 Jul 2010)  titled

"Horner laments 'manipulated' race

Horner says the sport was the big loser and feels Ferrari had no reason to do what it did.

"It's a great shame for Formula 1 that the race was manipulated to give one driver a victory over the other," Horner told AUTOSPORT.

"We came in for a lot of criticism in Istanbul for allowing our drivers to race but I think that it's the fair and sporting thing to do.

"The only losers today are Formula 1. Ferrari are a big enough team that they shouldn't need to do that and Fernando is a good enough driver not to particularly at this point in the season when there are still hundreds of points available."

Horner admitted he felt sorry for the fans who missed the opportunity to see Ferrari's drivers racing each other.

"It's a great shame. Ferrari are a great team," he said. "It's a shame for Formula 1 that they didn't allow Felipe and Fernando to race each other. There are not so many points between them and it was so obvious how they moved the cars around.

"The biggest losers are the fans, the spectators, the viewers as a race win was handed to Fernando. Rightly or wrongly, we've allowed our drivers to race because we believe that's the sporting thing to do and it also is within the regulations."

Every single comment could be applied to what Red Bull did on Sunday.  Like I said . . . . .

What a hypocrite. I can't stand the knob he just makes me sick whenever he opens his full of Bull, smarmy mouth 

Ju

[lkjohnson1950]

To be fair, we are not talking about the same situation here. Ferrari clearly told Massa to move over and give Alonso the win, RB merely asked Mark to hold the position he was in. If Mark was closing on Vettel mid race RB might have let him go, but it was 4 laps to go and they did not want something stupid to happen. That said, I think they can trust Mark not to take Vettel off the road. I'm not sure the opposite would be true. They should have trusted their drivers and not interfered.

Lonny

[Scott]

No but at the heart of his whining last year, was that he said the RBR drivers are allowed to race.  A radio instruction like that shows clearly that they aren't.

I think it would be enough to get on the radio and tell them both to be BLOODY careful not to take each other out 'cause there would be hell to pay for the one who is too aggressive and causes an accident.  Think of the applause he would have gotten had that been his radio call.

[lkjohnson1950]

I agree 100%.

Lonny

[David]

As a Ferrari fan I find Red Bulls hypocrisy regarding team orders breathtaking.  

As far as the blown diffuser saga goes, it is the exact opposite of F1 shooting itself in the foot.  In F1 controversy is marketing.

Just curious what hypocrisy are you referring to? Last years "do you understand" incident when team orders were forbidden and RB, along with many others, condemned Ferrari for it?

Now that team orders are legal and allowed what is the issue with RB taking advantage of the rules?

I think the big beef most of us had last year with Ferrari's handling of the incident was the blatant way they sent the message to Massa and the way it made F1 look. Sure, everyone knows that most of the teamS were doing it but in a far more subtle way.  

It is nothing to do with whether team orders are allowed or not.  The hypocrisy is that Red Bull took a very strong moral stance about "our drivers are free to race each other" at that time.  I know they were just taking the opportunity to kick Ferrari when they were down, along with all the other red bashers around the place.  And now here is Christian Horner justifying his actions using exactly the same language Ferrari has used in the past.  The criticism of Ferarri way back in Austria (2001?) was that making Rubens move over for Michael was unnecessary because Schumi had the championship in the bag anyway.  Exactly the same could have been said for Vettel yesterday.

The hypocrisy is that Red Bull drivers are clearly not "free to race each other".  

  Got you loud and clear there Cam

Nice find with the Horner comments too. I also had forgotten how outspoken he had been after that incident. Good on you Scott for posting it on their Bakebook page.

I think it would be enough to get on the radio and tell them both to be BLOODY careful not to take each other out 'cause there would be hell to pay for the one who is too aggressive and causes an accident.  Think of the applause he would have gotten had that been his radio call.

It would be great to hear this kind of honesty, but I can see it.

[Alianora La Canta]

I think you will find that while the people in F1 give lip service to the fans, privately they feel we are lucky to be able to watch as they go about their business. If the sales of Red Bull took a nose dive this week, you could bet there would be no team orders at the next race.

If the anecdontal evidence from people I know is anything to go by, Red Bull sales have dipped as a result of this. Not that I expect Red Bull to change its ways even with that effect.

[markfarrell9572]

Someone raised a point with me this morning, I hadn't thought of previously.   If Horner was afraid of them taking each other off why wasn't a call made "Sebastien, Mark is quicker than you", to paraphraphrase Robe Smedley!

[Scott]

Because Vettel would have paid about as much attention to that call as Webber did to 'maintain gap'.  

"ssshhhsshhh-wha-shhssshhh-s-sshhsshhhh-that?  sssshhh-radi-shsshhhhss-oubles'  ...at least that's what I would have said.