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Author Topic: Proposed road charging Scheme  (Read 6262 times)

Offline Wizzo

Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2007, 04:31:42 PM »

The Government plans to introduce a voluntary road charging scheme in the teeth of public opposition that's currently centred around the petition, which expires today, on the Prime Minister's Web site.

Details on the Government's plans to set up the scheme are emerging. The voluntary element would, according to the Observer newspaper, involve a reduction in motoring taxes in return for allowing satellite tracking systems to be installed in the car.

Others have accepted that it's a done deal too. According to the RAC Foundation, those who volunteer for the scheme would benefit in areas such as navigation, help with finding parking spaces, and pay-as-you go insurance.

Executive director Edmund King said: "If drivers have got a meter they'll think more about their actions, they'll cut out some journeys and they'll save themselves some money. There's nothing to lose starting with a voluntary scheme, but it would be political suicide for any government to impose it on people."

A warning was sounded by the Social Market Foundation, which calls itself "an independent think tank, exploring ideas that link the state and the market to create a more just, free and prosperous society". In spite of that, this organisation has just published a report which argues that "it is now time to move the debate forward from the why to the how by setting out a clear road map for the introduction of road user charging."

It argues that road pricing could fail unless charges are high enough to raise enough cash to improve public transport to the point where drivers feel they have a choice. It warns: "Expensive, inaccessible or unreliable public transport could leave the motorist with little choice to pay for essential trips, no matter the level of the charge."

So what do we reckon are the odds of a go-anywhere, affordable, acceptable, comfortable, clean, attractive public transport system emerging anytime soon?

Meanwhile, Tony Blair is to email everyone who signs up to the petition explaining why his Government plans to go ahead with the scheme whether the electorate wants it or not.

Welcome to 21st century Britain.

"No Matter how little money and how few possessions, you own, having a dog makes you rich."

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Offline Neil.P

Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2007, 04:50:59 PM »
Remember Labours winning theme tune 10 years ago? - 'Things can only get better'.

F*cking idiots have ruined this country, I knew Labour would be bad, but not this bad. The road charging is just the tip of the iceberg... Crime, Hospitals, Public Transport etc all out of control!

Neil.P ::)


  • Guest
Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2007, 05:58:19 PM »
You can all blame Ken Livingstone for all of this!    He was an ousted rebel politician ,and they thought they had put him out to grass.  He has only come back to bite them, but has shown a way to making big money and revenue for the Government......I hate to think what the response will be?....If we were Italian every city would be grid locked for weeks by protest.We are British and we are already gridlocked through stupidity.

The stig

Offline Ian

Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2007, 06:15:47 PM »
It's true, that's one thing that you've got to admire about the French and Italians, if they don't something they block off everything till they get what they want AND they don't worry about stupid EU laws, they just ignore them
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline cosworth151

Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2007, 02:02:35 AM »
As I read this, I'm reminded of the old Monty Python routine where government minister are discussing what else to tax. They finally realize "we've taxed everything pleasurable except, you know, Thingy". Hope Blair and his people don't see it.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Dare

Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2007, 03:58:09 AM »

seems like the politicians in your country and
ours have one goal,and it's not to help the
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."

Offline Wizzo

Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2007, 10:09:20 AM »
They finally realize "we've taxed everything pleasurable except, you know, Thingy". Hope Blair and his people don't see it.

Now theres one tax I wouldn't have to pay!  :DD ::) :(

"No Matter how little money and how few possessions, you own, having a dog makes you rich."

GPWizard F1 Forum

Offline Ian

Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2007, 06:27:01 PM »
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline Wizzo

Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2007, 09:28:15 PM »
Recieved this today:

The e-petition asking the Prime Minister to "Scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy" has now closed. This is a response from the Prime Minister, Tony Blair.

Thank you for taking the time to register your views about road pricing on the Downing Street website.

This petition was posted shortly before we published the Eddington Study, an independent review of Britain's transport network. This study set out long-term challenges and options for our transport network.

It made clear that congestion is a major problem to which there is no easy answer. One aspect of the study was highlighting how road pricing could provide a solution to these problems and that advances in technology put these plans within our reach. Of course it would be ten years or more before any national scheme was technologically, never mind politically, feasible.

That is the backdrop to this issue. As my response makes clear, this is not about imposing "stealth taxes" or introducing "Big Brother" surveillance. This is a complex subject, which cannot be resolved without a thorough investigation of all the options, combined with a full and frank debate about the choices we face at a local and national level. That's why I hope this detailed response will address your concerns and set out how we intend to take this issue forward. I see this email as the beginning, not the end of the debate, and the links below provide an opportunity for you to take it further.

But let me be clear straight away: we have not made any decision about national road pricing. Indeed we are simply not yet in a position to do so. We are, for now, working with some local authorities that are interested in establishing local schemes to help address local congestion problems. Pricing is not being forced on any area, but any schemes would teach us more about how road pricing would work and inform decisions on a national scheme. And funds raised from these local schemes will be used to improve transport in those areas.

One thing I suspect we can all agree is that congestion is bad. It's bad for business because it disrupts the delivery of goods and services. It affects people's quality of life. And it is bad for the environment. That is why tackling congestion is a key priority for any Government.

Congestion is predicted to increase by 25% by 2015. This is being driven by economic prosperity. There are 6 million more vehicles on the road now than in 1997, and predictions are that this trend will continue.

Part of the solution is to improve public transport, and to make the most of the existing road network. We have more than doubled investment since 1997, spending £2.5 billion this year on buses and over £4 billion on trains - helping to explain why more people are using them than for decades. And we're committed to sustaining this investment, with over £140 billion of investment planned between now and 2015. We're also putting a great deal of effort into improving traffic flows - for example, over 1000 Highways Agency Traffic Officers now help to keep motorway traffic moving.

But all the evidence shows that improving public transport and tackling traffic bottlenecks will not by themselves prevent congestion getting worse. So we have a difficult choice to make about how we tackle the expected increase in congestion. This is a challenge that all political leaders have to face up to, and not just in the UK. For example, road pricing schemes are already in operation in Italy, Norway and Singapore, and others, such as the Netherlands, are developing schemes. Towns and cities across the world are looking at road pricing as a means of addressing congestion.

One option would be to allow congestion to grow unchecked. Given the forecast growth in traffic, doing nothing would mean that journeys within and between cities would take longer, and be less reliable. I think that would be bad for businesses, individuals and the environment. And the costs on us all will be real - congestion could cost an extra £22 billion in wasted time in England by 2025, of which £10-12 billion would be the direct cost on businesses.

A second option would be to try to build our way out of congestion. We could, of course, add new lanes to our motorways, widen roads in our congested city centres, and build new routes across the countryside. Certainly in some places new capacity will be part of the story. That is why we are widening the M25, M1 and M62. But I think people agree that we cannot simply build more and more roads, particularly when the evidence suggests that traffic quickly grows to fill any new capacity.

Tackling congestion in this way would also be extremely costly, requiring substantial sums to be diverted from other services such as education and health, or increases in taxes. If I tell you that one mile of new motorway costs as much as £30m, you'll have an idea of the sums this approach would entail.

That is why I believe that at least we need to explore the contribution road pricing can make to tackling congestion. It would not be in anyone's interests, especially those of motorists, to slam the door shut on road pricing without exploring it further.

It has been calculated that a national scheme - as part of a wider package of measures - could cut congestion significantly through small changes in our overall travel patterns. But any technology used would have to give definite guarantees about privacy being protected - as it should be. Existing technologies, such as mobile phones and pay-as-you-drive insurance schemes, may well be able to play a role here, by ensuring that the Government doesn't hold information about where vehicles have been. But there may also be opportunities presented by developments in new technology. Just as new medical technology is changing the NHS, so there will be changes in the transport sector. Our aim is to relieve traffic jams, not create a "Big Brother" society.

I know many people's biggest worry about road pricing is that it will be a "stealth tax" on motorists. It won't. Road pricing is about tackling congestion.

Clearly if we decided to move towards a system of national road pricing, there could be a case for moving away from the current system of motoring taxation. This could mean that those who use their car less, or can travel at less congested times, in less congested areas, for example in rural areas, would benefit from lower motoring costs overall. Those who travel longer distances at peak times and in more congested areas would pay more. But those are decisions for the future. At this stage, when no firm decision has been taken as to whether we will move towards a national scheme, stories about possible costs are simply not credible, since they depend on so many variables yet to be investigated, never mind decided.

Before we take any decisions about a national pricing scheme, we know that we have to have a system that works. A system that respects our privacy as individuals. A system that is fair. I fully accept that we don't have all the answers yet. That is why we are not rushing headlong into a national road pricing scheme. Before we take any decisions there would be further consultations. The public will, of course, have their say, as will Parliament.

We want to continue this debate, so that we can build a consensus around the best way to reduce congestion, protect the environment and support our businesses. If you want to find out more, please visit the attached links to more detailed information, and which also give opportunities to engage in further debate.

Yours sincerely,

Tony Blair
"No Matter how little money and how few possessions, you own, having a dog makes you rich."

GPWizard F1 Forum

Offline cosworth151

Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2007, 03:31:48 AM »
At least our politicians here in the hills are more honest about it. In honor of their actions toward the taxpayers, the state of West Virginia has placed a giant condom on the State Capital building.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline monty

Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2007, 04:14:05 PM »
There's a few words you British use,but I feel
to stupid to ask what they mean

Yes, like road charging; petrol at $9/gallon; congestion; tight corners; hard suspension; etc., etc.

I can't believe Blair uses the phrase "we cannot build our way out of congestion". Of course we can. With the amount of tax they are taking from road tax and petrol tax they can easily afford to build new roads. I accept congestion in major cities will always be a problem but this can be eased by better roads outside of the cities then excellent car parks adjacent to reliable public transport to actually access the inner city areas.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2007, 09:12:12 PM »
But some research says you can build out of congestion unless you have near-infinite money. Among other places, the LA Times, amd Centre for Transport Studies report that if you build more roads, all that happens is that more people use them until they get as jammed as ever they were. What they need to do is invest in public transport so that people have options. Then those people who still want to use the road can do so without risking a road rage incident. Plus it would save admin money/the environment/the lower-end job market/whatever it is the government wants to save this week.

It's quite a controversial point, and there are some that argue monty's position that the current problems can be solved with a realistically available amount of road money. That said, Labour have had ten years to solve the problem; the Conservatives before them had 20. If they can't solve it by throwing money at roads, can anyone in politics?

As for what the government really does with the road money, I have my opinion, but since it's not really car-related, I won't express it here.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter) (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Chameleon

Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2007, 02:21:08 AM »
Why don't they just tarmac the whole island and let everyone drive wherever they want?

Never mind me - read :D

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2007, 11:26:32 AM »
Conservationists, Chameleon, conservationists...
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter) (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Steven Roy

Re: Proposed road charging Scheme
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2007, 09:50:17 PM »
There is a flaw in the plan to put black boxes on all cars and tax based on that.  Under EU law anyone with a car that is legal anywhere in the EU can turn up and drive it here.  So are all the Germans, French, Dutch, Polish, Lithuanians etc going to be held at Dover until they get a black box installed?  No, they are going to be allowed to drive wherever they like without any additional charge. 

Since the country needs these people to work here and we need tourists there are obviously going to be a lot of them which will contribute to the congestion.  So you only have to pay the additional cost if your car is registered in the UK.


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