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Author Topic: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton  (Read 3401 times)

Offline Jericoke

Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2012, 03:09:23 PM »
I think that, by the rules, Pastor's penalty is deserved.

I do believe that Hamilton forced Pastor's hand in the matter, although I think most would chalk it up to a 'racing incident' (an ill advised pass, an aggressive defense).

I also think that people are mentioning the track design as a factor.  Many of the modern purpose built tracks have large run off areas:  'racing incidents' have plenty of room to recover from a mistake like this.

Should there be more generous run off areas?  Or is it right to punish the drivers who take risks they cannot complete?

Offline stealthhaggis

Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2012, 03:44:48 PM »
What Lewis did by holding the racing line was his right, nothing dogey about what he did. A lot of other dirvers did the same earlier in the race. Pushing cars wide is one thing but when you are following the racing line then it is up to the following car to take avoiding action. Pastor should have either backed out or ducked left around the bump. 100% Pastors fault.He is young and learning, was quite impressed with Lewis for not mouthing off about Pastor considering he had every right to. Maybe Lewis is finally growing up. As for Pastor turning right to come back onto the track at a left hand turn when a car is already there is a schoolboy error, one which he hopefully will learn from. Although he is just as likely to do what he did at Spa again.

Offline Scott

Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2012, 03:53:01 PM »
I think if you look again, he was turning left.  Once his tire hit Hamilton's sidepod, it jerked his steering to the right, but I don't think it was intentional or schoolboy.  Likely it was the curb that threw his car into Hamilton's, not steering input.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2012, 09:09:07 PM »
How can people blame this on Lewis? Lewis held his line fair and square, and it was Pastor who should have backed down, but instead he kept running and hit Lewis, ending point scoring chances for both of them? How can be defending a position be illegal or unfair. What is unfair is shunting people out of a possible podium with your stupidity.

Pastor being handed a 20 sec penalty is inadequate, he should have been banned from Silverstone race. After his shunting of Perez in Monaco, and such incidences in Valencia, they should hand him harder punishment, so that next time he backs down to save himself and the car in front.
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2012, 02:24:31 AM »
Exactly. In Canada Alonso accepted that on the worn tires he could not fight Lewis and the others who caught him. He salvaged a few points, Hamilton got nothing. Ferd has matured, Hammy still has a way to go. I'm not saying Lewis was at fault, or Pastor was right, I'm saying Lewis should have been smarter. With his history with Maldonado, why not just get out of the way? He was certain to lose the position anyway, his tires were gone.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 02:29:26 AM by lkjohnson1950 »
Lonny

Offline monty

Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2012, 01:59:37 PM »
I am not a Hamilton fan. I'm an ex-driver, I love F1 and look at everything impartially (except anything to do with Schumacher).
I cannot understand how anyone could blame Hamilton for simply taking the normal line through a corner!
If the run-off area had been gravel, Maldonado would not have gone for the rash overtake (if he had, his race would have finished right there).
He knew exactly what he was doing when he went off track. Even then he could have cut the corner and come back on the track behind Hamilton but he drove into Hamilton deliberately (this is not the first time he has used the car as a weapon).
The guy is a hot-head and I think he should have been given a 10place grid penalty in the next race.

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2012, 10:29:23 PM »
Minimum one race ban must be enforced to Pastor. He must use his head and cannot let people suffer because of his stupidity. Once Balestre said to Senna for being stupid at Suzuka, 89. Wonder what he would have said after seeing Pastor's activity in Valencia and Monaco.

Wonder why people ask Lewis to give up and let it fight for another day. In Canada Alonso was not overtaken in the last lap, it was not the only corner where one can overtake in the whole track, so comparison should not be drawn. And as Martin Brundle said many of his interviews, if you let that person go, you are literally buried. So Lewis giving up for the greater good is against the principle of a racing driver, and what he did was nothing wrong from any point of view.
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2012, 03:47:37 AM »
James Allen made the excellent point that if McLaren had not botched Lewis' last pit stop, he would have been ahead of Alonso and out of Maldonado's reach after the safety car. The point is not if Lewis was in the wrong, he has had bad experiences with Pastor in the past, he needs to score points to win the championship. The smart, mature thing to do is let the Williams go and take the best finish you can get. And pardon me, but Brundle's attitude may be why he never was near a championship.
Lonny

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2012, 04:44:20 AM »
Just read that Whitmarsh also thinks the incident was avoidable contact on Lewis' part.
Lonny

Offline monty

Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2012, 08:26:25 AM »
Quote
Just read that Whitmarsh also thinks the incident was avoidable contact on Lewis' part.

Where did you read that?
The only remotely non-supportive Whitmarsh quote that I have heard or read said 'they are racers but perhaps they will both rue what happened'.
At no time have I heard him say it was remotely Hamiltons 'fault'.

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2012, 09:52:17 AM »
I didn't say that he said it was Lewis' fault. I said He thought Lewis could have avoided the contact. There is no doubt it was Maldonado's fault, the question is why Lewis didn't go into salvage as much as you can mode just as Alonso did in Canada. If Lewis is to be a champion again, he needs to learn that you don't always race everybody as hard as possible for every position in every situation. You pick your spots. At the rate the Williams was catching him, he should have realized he could not defend clear to the finish, knowing it was Pastor, who is frequently recklessly aggressive, he should have given him a wide berth. Even 5TH would have been better than a big fat zero. It's knowing that he had far more to lose than Maldonado.
Lonny

vintly

  • Guest
Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2012, 12:05:34 PM »
Is it Pastor's turn to be Lewis' nemesis? Some one has to!

Lewis will never change - it will cost him points, it may cost him a championship or two; but if all drivers were so damn sensible that they always yielded or made room or had the long game in mind and drove accordingly - then F1 would be dull. Let's be honest, collisions are exciting! No one likes to see people killed of course, but even serious, dangerous collisions are exciting, at least to me. Wouldn't have it any other way. Look at boxing - you don't have to like it, but it's one hell of a sport if you do.

So go on Lewis, go on Pastor, keep being a bit mental, I luv ya for it.

Offline monty

Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2012, 01:50:12 PM »
Quote
I didn't say that he said it was Lewis' fault. I said He thought Lewis could have avoided the contact. There is no doubt it was Maldonado's fault, the question is why Lewis didn't go into salvage as much as you can mode just as Alonso did in Canada. If Lewis is to be a champion again, he needs to learn that you don't always race everybody as hard as possible for every position in every situation. You pick your spots. At the rate the Williams was catching him, he should have realized he could not defend clear to the finish, knowing it was Pastor, who is frequently recklessly aggressive, he should have given him a wide berth. Even 5TH would have been better than a big fat zero. It's knowing that he had far more to lose than Maldonado

Sorry if it sounded like I was questioning you. It seems that I am fighting Lewis' corner but I'm not. I just can't see what anyone thought he did wrong. He still out-braked Maldonado so he went into the corner in the normal way, taking the normal line. Would he have lost the place later - of course he would. However, he still had no reason to think that Maldonado would drive all four wheels off the track and then deliberately drive into the side of him when he rejoined the track.
Lewis did nothing wrong on this occassion and he had the race taken away from him. It seems people are suggesting that Hamilton should have almost stopped and just let Maldonado go. Why should he, he had track position! If the suggestion is that he should have known that Maldonado was going to deliberately wipe him out then perhaps the safest thing would have been to just give up! However, I don't think that is 'racing' and it would allow anyone to use 'bullying tactics' to get past competitors.

Offline Scott

Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2012, 03:40:39 PM »
It's not really that clear cut Monty (note, I'm not picking on you, but someone has to defend Pastor as well). 

Watch the video at :04.  Hamilton did indeed drive Pastor off the track (Pastor was even in front of Lewis before the corner, so Lewis can't claim he didn't know Pastor was there)...then along to :07 when Maldonado was still alongside Lewis with already two tires back on the track well before the left-hander.  At that point Lewis cut the corner as if he didn't have a care in the world, yet if he had looked a bit left, as one does when they are turning left, he would have seen Pastor's front tire just a wee bit behind his own going into the corner.  If at that point Hamilton thought he should just take his regular racing line then he deserves what he got.  In my opinion Pastor was already back on the track long before the corner impact.  Lewis pinched, and Lewis got punted.  Didn't have to happen.

If anyone is saying it was avoidable, it's not because Lewis shouldn't have given up his place if he didn't have to, but that when you run someone off the track, perhaps
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline monty

Re: Maldonaldo Penalized Over Hamilton
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2012, 12:43:33 PM »
Sorry, I'm still sticking to my guns. I was a halfway decent driver in lower grade motor sport and drivers in either Hamilton's position or Maldonado's position would know when the corner is won or lost. It is at the turn-in point.
If Maldonado was clearly in front at the turn-in point he would have been making an incredibly brave (bordering on stupid) overtake considering he was on the outside. On most race tracks that would be risking ending up in the gravel trap but of course at this circuit he knew he had the safety blanket of a tarmac run-off area.
However, it was Hamilton who was in front at the turn-in point. He would therefore assume that he could take the normal line (because any other 'professional' driver would know that the corner was already lost).
Instead of dropping in behind Hamilton, Maldonado deliberately maintained his speed, used the tarmac run-off and then rejoined in a dangerous way.
I can't say what his motives were but any driver (even kids in karting) would know that he could not rejoin safely while another car was legitimately at the apex!!!
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 12:47:11 PM by monty »

 


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