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Author Topic: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban  (Read 6569 times)

Offline Scott

Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2012, 01:23:51 PM »
See I look at that and it just confirms my thoughts.  He went inside - no question.  But he very likely thought he was past Hamilton by the time the Sauber moved over and made the gap he was aiming for smaller.  So he moved a bit more over, not realizing Lewis was there and kaboom.

Look, I'm not suggesting it was anyone else's fault than Grossjean.  Clearly he was at fault.  However I don't think he tried to intentionally run Lewis off the track or make contact with him.  That is my contention, and that is why I don't think a race ban is the correct punishment.  10 place grid penalty or starting from the pit lane next race, OK.  Race ban - not OK.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Online Dare

Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2012, 05:00:15 PM »
T1 of a F1 race is the most likely place for a crash!So
likely that when I started the GG I started to have a
crash in t1 bet.Only probably then would be what a
crash and just cars touching are.I think I'd have
classified this one a crash :D
Mark Twain once opined, "it's easier to con someone than to convince them they've been conned."

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2012, 06:20:37 AM »
Grosjean was going for the inside line to the corner, pretty much what any race driver would do. Something no one has mentioned is that Lewis could have avoided contact if he had dabbed the brakes, but that's not what racing drivers do. I think both drivers could take a little blame. So can the rules makers, if the ugly high noses were banned, Grosjean's car likely would have submarined Perez' instead of launching over it. Grosjean's  record is pretty clean. He's made some very good drives. The contact was not intentional as far as I can see. The fact that the Steward's statement mentions Alonso and Hamilton as victims makes it seem their involvement made it more heinous. This ruling is over the top. Schumacher didn't get banned for running Rubens over the pit exit, that was deliberate and very dangerous, what if someone had been exiting the pits? But he's a 7 time WDC, not a rookie. There have been a large number of first turn accidents over many years without anyone getting banned. There is very little consistency in penalties from the stewards and that sucks. At least he's in good company, Schumacher, Hakinnen, and Mansell all served bans at one time or another.
Lonny

Offline Canada Darrell™

Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2012, 06:25:18 AM »
Grosjean was going for the inside line to the corner, pretty much what any race driver would do. Something no one has mentioned is that Lewis could have avoided contact if he had dabbed the brakes, but that's not what racing drivers do. I think both drivers could take a little blame. So can the rules makers, if the ugly high noses were banned, Grosjean's car likely would have submarined Perez' instead of launching over it. Grosjean's  record is pretty clean. He's made some very good drives. The contact was not intentional as far as I can see. The fact that the Steward's statement mentions Alonso and Hamilton as victims makes it seem their involvement made it more heinous. This ruling is over the top. Schumacher didn't get banned for running Rubens over the pit exit, that was deliberate and very dangerous, what if someone had been exiting the pits? But he's a 7 time WDC, not a rookie. There have been a large number of first turn accidents over many years without anyone getting banned. There is very little consistency in penalties from the stewards and that sucks. At least he's in good company, Schumacher, Hakinnen, and Mansell all served bans at one time or another.

Very well said Lonny and I might point out I posted the prediction that cars were inevitably going to launch UP in collisions given the right set of circumstances when I saw the initial design concept a couple of years ago.
Kimi's back! Future double WDC.

Offline John S

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Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2012, 10:21:24 AM »
Grosgrain's  record is pretty clean. He's made some very good drives. The contact was not intentional as far as I can see. The fact that the Steward's statement mentions Alonso and Hamilton as victims makes it seem their involvement made it more heinous. This ruling is over the top. Stomacher didn't get banned for running Rubens over the pit exit, that was deliberate and very dangerous, what if someone had been exiting the pits?

I'm not so sure his record is that clean, especially at the start of races, all the race pundits seem to be talking about 7 previous incidents this year, not all pr oven his fault I might add, and most of them have been at the start of races, with Monaco cited as particularly dodgy.

The big difference as I see it between the start and the rest of the race is the much greater potential for harm to life and limb with so many cars packed so tightly around them. I think maybe the stewards have gone for the race ban to send a signal to Roman, and others, that continual very poor spacial awareness at starts will not be tolerated.  

The schumi incident you mention whilst being highly contentious was clearly about making or defending a position between two drivers, both opted to tough it out - yes Michael was very robust, maybe even naughty, but no one forced Rubens to keep his boot in down a long straight, so in my opinion he added 49% to the drama. This present incident allowed Lewis no room at all heading towards a tight turn with loads of other cars in front and behind them, hell their wheels even interlocked as Grosjean arrived across Lewis' bows. Roman seems to have given Perez in front of him a wide berth but seems to have either not anticipated, or not cared, if cars were steaming down the right hand side. Now for me not anticipating, so not looking for cars on his right, is just as heinous as the other alternative - namely he didn't care if anyone was there.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 10:39:08 AM by John S »
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Online cosworth151

Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2012, 12:34:18 PM »
Lewis really didn't have the option of hitting his brakes. That would have cause an accordion type chain reaction behind him. di Resta would have rear-ended Hamilton, Nico would have run into di Resta and so on.

I thought the reason for the droop-snoot "platypus" cars was to get the nose lower for safety.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Scott

Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2012, 04:20:17 PM »
Yeah, I don't really blame it on Lewis, he had every right to be where he was, and exactly which F1 driver would lift on the front straight before the T1 braking zone?   ;)

I really think Grossjean just didn't realize he was there.   :DntKnw:
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline stealthhaggis

Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2012, 09:53:49 AM »
To be fair it was page 3 before it was Lewis' fault! Quite impressive actually.  :DD

Grosjeans ban was fair and correct, problem is Pastor, as he was brought up, has not been for equally dangerous and a lot more consistent errors. I doubt anyone would have had an issue if others were similarly penalised. Personally it looks like the ban worked as people generally behaved themselves at Monza.

Offline Scott

Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2012, 10:14:22 AM »
Yeah, I don't think I remember a Monza race where everyone got through the first chicane.   :good: :good:
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Williamsfan

  • Guest
Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2012, 08:42:13 PM »
I must admit I expected to see a replay of Maldonado colliding with half a dozen cars at the first lap.  I was surprised, pleasantly, that he managed to drive a decent(ish) race.  The driving in that first corner in general was exceptional.

Online cosworth151

Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2012, 08:59:40 PM »
Yeah, I don't think I remember a Monza race where everyone got through the first chicane.   :good: :good:

Just before the start, some of us in the Chat Room were wondering how many of those Agip (Eni) foam blocks in the first chicane would survive the start. Much to our surprise, they all did. Maybe Stealth is right about the effect of Grosjean's penalty.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Monty

Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2012, 11:44:17 AM »
John S has it spot on.
Grosjean was penalised because of what could have happened - it could so easily have resulted in a fatality.
I think the fact that he has had a number of 1st lap incidents probably also went against him.
I think the stewards are effectively saying to the Hamiltons, Maldanados and Grosjeans - "just cool it". The fact that sometimes an isolated incident seems unfair to us fans doesn't really matter if they really do dish out consistent penalties.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2012, 12:43:56 PM »
I thought the reason for the droop-snoot "platypus" cars was to get the nose lower for safety.

It is. It's meant to stop cars flying over the rear wings of other cars. Any benefit in this sort of side-on collision would have been a happy coincidence.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2012, 02:46:03 PM »
Obviously a fail since Grosjean went right over the back of Perez.
Lonny

Offline stealthhaggis

Re: Re: Grosjean slapped with One Race Ban
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2012, 05:58:44 PM »
Obviously a fail since Grosjean went right over the back of Perez.
That was down to lotus' new double f duct, they said they were not going to run it yet the f word was definitely used repeatedly during that manoeuvre!

 


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