Vettel wins unchallenged -again

[vintly]

It looks like Vettel is genuinely a bit special. He pulled out 1.6 seconds on Webber in the first three laps, we've seen him do it time and time again. I totally understand people saying it's boring, but it would take many more seasons of this for Red Bull fans or Vettel fans to get bored, that's for sure.

I'm sure Schumacher fans took more than three seasons to get bored of him winning everything - most fans never would - it's all you want from your favoured driver isn't it? I'm biased as I like Vettel, and Webber, and Newey and Horner, but I wouldn't say his win was unchallenged. One mistake and your race is over.

[Irisado]

Vettel is good at leading races from the front.  If he doesn't qualify on the front row, his record is much poorer, and he has made minor, and sometimes more major, mistakes trying to come through the field.

I make no secret of the fact that I dislike Vettel's attitude.  He's an exceptionally sour loser, and his victory celebrations, his finger waving, his attitude to naming his cars, and his constant changes of helmet colour and design strike me as an immature attention seeker.  In my view, he still has a low of growing up to do.

For all those reasons, I'd be happy if he never won another race, yet alone a title, until he matures, but that won't happen.  We're stuck with his domination until Red Bull make a serious mistake with their car design, or their old unreliability issues from previous seasons re-emerge.

As for the last few races, they've become progressively more dull, but it's not just down to Vettel.  It's due to the lack of action, uber-reliability, and forced overtaking.

I don't find DRS passes exciting at all.  I'm with Martin Brundle's view from the past two years that it's artificial, and makes overtaking too easy.  I want to see genuine passes, without driver aids, and for that we need F1 to sort out the issue of aerodynamics, so that the cars rely on mechanical grip more than aero grip.  If the aerodynamics played less of a role, cars could get closer to each other in the corners, and then you could overtake, and have proper racing, without the need for DRS.

[John S]

For all those reasons, I'd be happy if he never won another race, yet alone a title, until he matures, but that won't happen.  We're stuck with his domination until Red Bull make a serious mistake with their car design, or their old unreliability issues from previous seasons re-emerge.

Wouldn't more maturity make Seb even more likely to win?  

Anyway he's still a young guy and youngsters do things that us oldies find annoying, it's the nature of things. I'm sure I annoyed the hell out of my dad and his peers when they were alive, just as my sons leave me shaking my head sometimes.

  

[Monty]

I don't find DRS passes exciting at all.  I'm with Martin Brundle's view from the past two years that it's artificial, and makes overtaking too easy.  I want to see genuine passes, without driver aids, and for that we need F1 to sort out the issue of aerodynamics, so that the cars rely on mechanical grip more than aero grip.  If the aerodynamics played less of a role, cars could get closer to each other in the corners, and then you could overtake, and have proper racing, without the need for DRS.

I cannot disagree. However, all aero classes suffer the same. I remember when I was racing I went from Formula Ford (no wings) to Formula BMW (with wings) and was amazed how all my old overtaking skills became useless. Drafting up to the car in front and then diving down the inside at a corner just wouldn't work because as soon as you got close to the car in front, your car goes light and understeers.
Overtaking was still possible but it needed a more 'physical' approach where a bit of bravery and wheel banging took place. All perfectly acceptable in the lower classes but absolutely forbidden in modern F1!

[Irisado]

Wouldn't more maturity make Seb even more likely to win?  

Probably, but I wouldn't be so angry at his level of success if his attitude were to improve.

I cannot disagree. However, all aero classes suffer the same. I remember when I was racing I went from Formula Ford (no wings) to Formula BMW (with wings) and was amazed how all my old overtaking skills became useless. Drafting up to the car in front and then diving down the inside at a corner just wouldn't work because as soon as you got close to the car in front, your car goes light and understeers.
Overtaking was still possible but it needed a more 'physical' approach where a bit of bravery and wheel banging took place. All perfectly acceptable in the lower classes but absolutely forbidden in modern F1!

That all sounds really depressing.  There must be a way to solve this problem without doing away with wings completely, or am I being far too idealistic?

[lkjohnson1950]

A return to ground effects would help. The problem is the down force acts at the extreme ends of the car. If the airflow to the front wing is disturbed the down force is reduced and you get understeer. If the airflow to the rear wing or diffuser is disturbed you get oversteer. Ground effects would move the down force to the middle of the car. In the 80s cars often ran without front wings. When you follow another car you may still lose a bit of aero but the balance is maintained. The other approach is to reduce the aero to the point it makes little difference. Grand Am took that approach, allowing only 2-300 pounds total for the car. Passing is hard but possible. F1 is unlikely to go that way because teams feel aerodynamics is the one area they can still show technical ability.

[Monty]

I can't see the top level of motor moving away from aerodynamics, if F1 reduces aero effects their lap times would be slower than most of the feeder classes.
Equally, I can't see ground effect ever being made legal. The problem with ground effect (as opposed to wings) is that once the distance between the car and the ground is extended (hitting a kerb, clipping wheels, etc.) the ground effect is broken and you are piloting a wingless aeroplane. The nett result is almost always expensive and dangerous!
I think we will forever be faced with some level of 'push to pass' overtaking.
F1 has so far failed to get this right. KERS was a clever idea but did not give enough benefit, DRS is really crude and makes for artificial overtaking.
With Turbo cars they can introduce over-boost and I for one hope they do.
The instant additional power from over-boost can be used for extra speed on a straight or additional torque out of a corner. Limit the number of times you can use it and suddenly you have a new strategic tool for overtaking.

[Irisado]

Yes, I've read up about ground effect, but it was highly dangerous back then, as Monty says, and I'm not sure that it would be any safer now.

I'm with you Monty, in the sense that I see the turbo engines as a possible way around this problem.  If the drivers had more interesting ways in which the engine could be used during races, and perhaps the more you use it, the greater the reliability risk would be, so you'd have to balance how often you 'pushed the button', so to speak, I think that it would be much better than DRS.

It may also prevent the races being a foregone conclusion whenever Vettel takes pole .

[lkjohnson1950]

The dangerous part of Ground Effects was the moving skirt to seal the car to the ground. CART was able to devise rules that eliminated the skirts but retained at least some of the down force. It still reduces the dependency on the front wing for balance. In addition, the technology has advanced greatly since the '80s, so it might be possible to design a reliable skirt now. 

[Scott]

Give them all one can of nitrous oxide and let them use as much as they want whenever they want, but when and how much they use is all strategy.

[Monty]

Give them all one can of nitrous oxide and let them use as much as they want whenever they want, but when and how much they use is all strategy.

Nice idea. However, having used Nitrous in drag racing I think reliability might suffer a bit! I have melted several pistons with over zealous use of the Nitrous switch 

[cosworth151]

That could be a plus. The driver has the option of using the nitrous, but with the knowledge that it might cost him an engine if overdone. I'll bet it would lead to some exciting last laps.