collapse

* Welcome

Welcome to GPWizard F1 Forum!

GPWizard is the friendliest F1 forum you'll find anywhere. You have a host of new like-minded friends waiting to welcome you.

So what are you waiting for? Becoming a member is easy and free! Take a couple seconds out of your day and register now. We guarantee, you wont be sorry you did.

Click Here to become a full Member for Free

* User Info

 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

* Newsletter

GPWizard F1 Forum Newsletter Email address:
Weekly
Fortnightly
Monthly

* Grid Game Deadlines

Qualifying

Race

* Shoutbox

Refresh History
  • Wizzo: :good:
    March 05, 2024, 11:44:46 PM
  • Dare: my chat button is onthe bottom rightWiz
    March 03, 2024, 11:58:24 PM
  • Wizzo: Yes you should see the chat room button at the bottom left of your screen
    March 02, 2024, 11:39:55 PM
  • Open Wheel: Is there a Chat room button or something to access “Race day conversation”
    March 02, 2024, 02:46:02 PM
  • Wizzo: The 2024 Grid Game is here!  :yahoo:
    January 30, 2024, 01:42:23 PM
  • Wizzo: Hey everybody - the shout box is back!  :D
    August 21, 2023, 12:18:19 PM

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 375
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 5
  • Dot Users Online:

* Top Posters

cosworth151 cosworth151
16143 Posts
Scott Scott
14057 Posts
Dare Dare
12983 Posts
John S John S
11253 Posts
Ian Ian
9729 Posts

Author Topic: Vettel wins Webber doesn't  (Read 12685 times)

Williamsfan

  • Guest
Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2013, 07:53:15 PM »
Certainly Mateschitz seems to like Webber and that can't hurt Mark.  It was surprising to see the team so publicly call out Vettel though, maybe it is part of an exercise to keep him grounded somewhat? 

Regarding my other post, I know, it is impossible to police which is a pity but I just want to see full on racing without interference of other things.  Let the guys do what they're paid for and what we tune in to watch.  Good point about the SC prediction though, that and more rain which usually happens could have meant Hamilton's strategy was genius! 

Offline John S

  • F1 Legend
  • ****
  • Date Registered: Jan 2007
  • Location: Lincolnshire, UK
  • Posts: 11253
  • 11550 credits
  • View Inventory
  • Send Money To John S
  • Max for 3rd title! - to see more Toto apoplexy.
Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2013, 08:06:28 PM »
What struck me about the whole thing was that very likely Vettel figured he would ignore Horner because Marko has his back (as Mark eluded to more than once - 'he's got protection').  But then even Marko said post race that Vettel had been a bad boy and that is likely the ONLY reason Vettel is so apologetic - I wonder if Marko has had a bit of a talking to by Dieter and Vettel no longer has him as an ally.

All That may be true but will Red Bull really sack Vettel even if he does it again?  We all know that several other teams would make room for him if he is available - in fact uncle Bernie will make sure they do.

Just like Senna on Prost or Lewis & Nando at McLaren, when only the anointed son survived, this is a power play from Vettel. Mark must be doing a better job this year and Seb feels the need to make sure he is only facing a few drivers in other cars for a record breaking 4th straight championship. They always say first you must to beat your teamate to  succeed in racing.     
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Scott

Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2013, 08:24:07 PM »
All That may be true but will Red Bull really sack Vettel even if he does it again? 
I don't think I suggested that, but whatever has been said to Vettel in private seems to have made him pretty nervous.  Certainly this year if he wants another title his teammate won't do him any favours.  And if a team can't manage a driver, then there is no place for him on the team.  Even a double WDC (look at your example - Nando at Mclaren).
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Online cosworth151

Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2013, 08:33:25 PM »
I've been a fan of Vettel since his first F1 race at Indy in 2007. Now, I'm not so sure. What he did to Webber today was despicable.

Hopefully, some of the powers-that-be at RBR just decided that this would be a good year for Mark to win a WDC.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline greener_09

Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2013, 09:08:54 PM »
Im far from being a Vettel fan and think his actions today were disgusting but this is why i totally disagree with team orders. If he was faster than Webber then he should have been allowed to pass just like Rosberg should have been allowed to pass Hamilton ( i am actually a massive Hamilton fan ) . It wasnt Rosbergs fault Lewis was low on fuel so he should of been free to take 3rd place. Team order takes away genuine racing i know the team has to be careful to bring both cars home but lets be sensible and let the fastest driver get the result he deserves.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2013, 09:26:55 PM »
I was unimpressed by the team ordering from both Red Bull and Mercedes. Come on team principals, you have 4 winners and 2 champions between you. Surely they should be trustworthy enough to look after their cars and refrain from collisions while competing with each other? Drivers lower down the field do it all the time. I'm sure they'd love to have a prime seat if the more decorated members of F1 cannot do something so basic as race a team-mate without breaking any cars.

It felt babyish, and besides, Red Bull has 3 years' experience of knowing Seb doesn't follow team orders if they contradict his racing instinct. It was pointless for them to try!
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

vintly

  • Guest
Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2013, 09:28:58 PM »
I'm really no fan of team orders but once they are issued should be followed.  Knowing Mark was following orders it wasn't fair for Seb to take advantage.  He claims he didn't do it deliberately but you can not pass someone by accident.   I've always liked Seb, he's seemed to be a winner and a nice guy too.  Today he went down in mine and many people's estimation.  31 years ago Didier Pironi  did something to Gilles Villeneuve, and today isn't remembered for his wins, but is remembered for playing dirty.  Fairly or unfairly thats the abiding memory most have of Pironi.  Hopefully Seb isn't remembered in time to come as someone who couldn't be trusted.

Ditto that.

On the point about Marko having Vettel's back - this is trotted out an awful lot as if it's something to be levelled at Seb as a Bad Thing. How dare you be closer to the boss than your team-mate?? Well if that is the case, is that Vettel's fault? Or just how Marko feels? Is it even such a bad thing to have a favourite in your team, or to be the favoured driver? If I was a driver I'd be happy to be favoured. Wouldn't use that situation to further my own ends, and I don't think Seb does either. He didn't think, 'Ok I'll get away with this because I'm the chosen one.'

On this point, Mark should not be whining in public. He has a great position in a great team, which isn't so bad for the old guy on the grid, and happens to be paired with a super-fast driver, who's simply quicker than him on nearly every occasion. In today's race I sympathise with Mark, of course he's annoyed - a race win has effectively been stolen from him. But his beef should be just with Vettel, not about any favouritism within the team.


Offline Irisado

Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2013, 10:03:47 PM »
I don't think that Marko was terribly critical of Vettel in the comments he made to the BBC at least.  I feel that this is going to be swept under the carpet.
Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2013, 10:12:31 PM »
I think Mark has had a number of occasions to see that Vettel is favored, leading with the wing incident at Silverstone. Truly, there is little RB can do about it and I think Seb knows it and takes advantage. BUT, most of you have jobs where you have to answer to a boss, what happens if you directly disobey your boss's instruction? If I were RB, I would tell Vettel that the next time he does it he will sit out a race. Given F1's realities, I know that won't happen. As for Merc, Both cars were low on fuel, it was as important for Nico to dial it back as for Lewis. I think they were looking for a wet race.
Lonny

Offline Cam

Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2013, 11:42:35 PM »
Dieter Mateschitz will right now be counting his losses in the millions from the damage that Vettel has done to the Red Bull brand.  I wouldn’t mind betting his mobile phone came close to melting at the end of the race.  To get an apology out of Vettel and for Marko to publicly criticise his boy is a measure of how serious this is.

I have no problem at all with team orders, they have always been a part of the sporting nature of F1 and always will be. Drivers can’t win races without a team behind them and at times the priorities of the team come before those of the driver. At the very least I am willing to concede that the likes of Ross Brawn and Christian Horner know better than I how to win in F1.
I am a lover of what is, not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality - Byron Katie

Online Jericoke

Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2013, 02:03:25 AM »
I understand that winning an F1 race means the culmination of work of hundreds of men and women.  The man on the track is the one with the final say as to what the car does though.

An F1 driver is there to win races (unless they've signed a contract for Ferrari saying they'll pull over).  It's that simple.  That's Vettel's job.  There are hundreds of people who support him in that effort, why should he be expected to pull back when he has the opportunity to win?  For his teammate's feelings?

Mark might certainly be sore about the way things went down... but I believe he'd do the same to Seb if he wanted.  I think anyone on the grid would, and rightly so.

Maybe it's the Canadian race fan in me.  Is there any chance Gilles Villeneuve would cruise to victory like Mark was planning on?  Or any of the greats?

Offline Scott

Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2013, 07:18:38 AM »
Something not mentioned is that Mark kept Vettel at a gap behind him until they were both told to turn down their engines.  Only at that point was Vettel able to close up and make the pass.  Vettel was not faster than Mark yesterday, he simply took advantage of Mark voluntarily tuning down his engine as requested by the team.  If there had been no team orders, very likely they both would have raced like banshees and if they had made it to the end, it is just as likely that Webber would have led across the line.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Cam

Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2013, 09:07:42 AM »
Why should he be expected to pull back when he has the opportunity to win?

Scott has beaten me to it, yours and 99% of everyone elses default assumption is that if they had pushed hard to the end then Vettel would have won, when in fact Mark had Vettel's measure for the majority of the race and more than likely would have maintained that to the end.  Vettel had already tried to get the team to get Mark to let him past, why? because he could'nt get past on merit. Everyone makes it sound like Vettel was the only one being held back by the team.
I am a lover of what is, not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality - Byron Katie

Williamsfan

  • Guest
Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2013, 09:13:21 AM »
Excellent point Scott/Cam.  When Vettel first asked to be allowed through, Webber just turned up the heat and pulled away.  I have no doubt he would have done the same again had he not dialled his engine down. 

Offline stealthhaggis

Re: Vettel wins Webber doesn't
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2013, 09:32:40 AM »
Vettel showed yesterday what he lacks and that is class. People dislike him and struggle to put a finger (probably not his pointy finger) on why and I think this is it. The will to win is strong but that humbleness and respect is not there. I watched Sky's coverage and thought Horner and Marko were far from critical at Vettel, if anything Marko was more critical than Horner. Horner even seemed to be trying to blame both of them which was crazy. Webber will never win, next time he will just do what Vettel always has done, and that is ignore team orders. Vettel has done it many time in the past and gotten away with it, how many times has he pushed for the fastest lap despite being told by the team to cool it? He is immature and has no respect for anyone but himself. I'd love to see him in the same car as Alonso or Hamilton so they could teach him a few lessons. Red Bull have a real problem on their hands as they have no control over their driver and no way of controlling him either. Basically it means that whatever Vettel wants Vettel will get. Mark should have went to Ferrari!

 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal
Menu Editor Pro 1.0 | Copyright 2013, Matthew Kerle