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Author Topic: Views on the Chinese GP  (Read 6471 times)

vintly

  • Guest
Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2013, 02:40:10 PM »
I agree with Lonny. I'm fed up watching cars busy not racing! Tyre management and pit strategy is getting really boring.

I agree, but we mustn't forget that these measures were brought in to increase overtaking after many years of really boring processional races. I too think the measures (weak tyres, DRS) are becoming too much the sport, and not the racing, but give them a chance to sort it out, it's better than the past. The overtaking stats say it all, from cliptheapex.com:



From what I've heard, from the Barca GP there'll be more soft tyres for quali, making that more lively at least. Hopefully Pirellli will be made to toughen up the compounds a bit too.

On the whole I thought it was a bit dull until the end, except for when there was contact.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 02:42:03 PM by vintly »

Offline Irisado

Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2013, 02:51:20 PM »
Overaking is too easy now though, thanks to DRS.  I'd be happy if we went back to the levels of overtaking from the 1980s on that graph.  I don't mind cars passing each other because of tyre degradation, but I do object to easy passes on straights using DRS.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2013, 03:03:13 PM »
DRS means there's little point in going for a good qualifying spot unless you're a pole contender or expecting to start in 11th or below, and also that most overtakes are telegraphed laps in advance and therefore lose all drama and interest before they happen. I'm fed up of being able to tell where everyone will finish (crashes and pit strategy stupidity excepted) by lap 6.

It comes down to whether one wants 10 sugar-free chocolate bars or 1 standard one.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2013, 04:50:26 PM »
Too bad Alia, if you could do that before the race, I am sure we would have no chance with you in GG.

Well I think its a direction the authority are forced to take, because otherwise the bigger teams would have made it all of their own. Putting a budget cap would have another way of ensuring close racing, but that would have undermined the pinnacle of motorsports.

I think they should address aerodynamic issue, this may be another region where can try to ensure good wheel to wheel racing.
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Offline Irisado

Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2013, 05:02:14 PM »
I think they should address aerodynamic issue, this may be another region where can try to ensure good wheel to wheel racing.

They should, but they won't.

The teams can never agree with each other about what to do regarding the aerodynamics, and that's before the FIA tries to get involved, which makes the matter even more divisive.

Why they felt the need to have DRS zones in China was beyond me.  It's not a track where it's terribly difficult to pass, so what was the logic behind that decision?
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Scott

Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2013, 05:14:32 PM »
Waa-waa-waa...

(here I go again) The problem isn't that they have DRS.  The problem is that they restrict it to one or two particular straights on the track. 

Time limit it and let the drivers use it whenever/wherever they like.  They can combine a strategy of KRS with the tire strategy and put in fast laps when they need it.  Might actually give some of the slower teams a bit of a leg up now and then if they use it correctly as well.

I'm pretty pleased to watch races with position changes.  Heckuva lot better than NOT.  There could be better ways to do it, but until they figure them out, I'll go with what we have now.  F1 will never become what it once was - and thank god for that.  Just enjoy the best that the era has to offer.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Jericoke

Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2013, 08:23:38 PM »
Formula One isn't the only sport that has been affected by 'modernization'.

Athletes in the 21st century are no longer grown men (and women) going out and playing kids games.  Athletes like Wayne Gretzky, Larry Bird and Pele could  'get into shape' for their sporting season, and then slack off over the off season.  Not now.  An athlete needs to eat right, exercise right and practise constantly just to maintain their level.

It's the same for F1 drivers.  A top driver used to be some guy who would get in a car and be magic behind the wheel.  Now it is someone who dedicates his life to being ready to turn the magic on at will.  It was possible for underdogs to win because they didn't spend the night out at Monte Carlo.  Not anymore!

Unlike other sports though, F1 drivers are subject to their equipment.  In the era of the garagistas, a bunch of guys followed their instincts, to design, build and maintain a car that they hoped would win.  Sometimes they were right, sometimes they were wrong.  There wasn't exhausting calculations, computerised manufacturing, or tolerances measured in microns.  A genius design one race could fall apart the next.

That's just not part of the sport anymore.  A top driver on day 1 will be a top driver on day 200.  Same with a fast, reliable race car.  Yes, there is room for the cars to get better during the season, and the possibility of miscalcuation by a top team, but really and truly, the sport and fans can no longer hope that a leading team will simply get it wrong to allow the pack to catch up and provide spectacle. 

So we need to put in some speed bumps just to keep things close.  I agree the rules aren't really in the spirit of F1, but the sport we see today is so far removed from what Fangio, Stewart, Senna or even Damon Hill would recognise anway.  F1 will never be the same as it was, but I love that they're willing to try to make it something worth watching. 

If the most exciting on track action comes from drivers making tiny mistakes, then surely it's expected that the people running the sport must be allowed tiny mistakes from time to time!

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2013, 04:11:10 AM »
I'm not saying we should go back to tires that would last the whole race, though I'm sure Pirelli could build them, there was just too big a gap between the the Prime and the Option. Jens knew he had to drive smart because he was going for one less stop, but to ask if he should defend or roll over for Lewis is a bit much for me. If they could write a set of rules that allowed a bit of ground effects, I think it would lead to less artificial passing and more real racing.
Lonny

Offline John S

Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2013, 10:26:14 AM »
Sorry all you guys and gals who thought the race boring, I thought the big uncertainty about the tyres, and therefore strategies, made the race both gripping and fascinating.

Loved Webber's dive for the pits after one lap, a move I was expecting - only due to my son's brilliant prediction of this.  :-[ "It's simple" he said, as the cars were on the formation lap, "if those on mediums might leave it til the last lap to go onto softs someone in a fast car at the very back would lose little by doing the exact reverse on lap 1." Out of the mouths of babes etc.  :swoon:

The difference in Massa & Alonso's performance is easy to explain, Felipe pitted too late from his first stint putting him behind cars that were hard to pass as they were on similar strategy with a touch less pace. This had the effect of either destroying his front tyres if he stayed on it trying to attempt passes, or staying down the order if he could not pass the cars he fell behind. Nando on the other hand enjoyed nice clear runs out on his own by making that space with skillfull overtakes right before the DRS zone jumping cars in front and staying there. :good:  Handling a proper two car strategy does not seem to a Ferrari strongpoint.  :D

The big standout for me was not the burst of action by Vettel at the end but rather why his team did not pit him a lap or two before they did?  :DntKnw: There was clearly no danger of attack from behind, Jens & Di resta had to pit again and Massa's pace ruled him out of catching Seb. So no real danger from behind but a lot to gain ahead, ::) very bad strategy call by RBR for me.  :crazy:

McLaren strategy however was spot on and executed to perfection by Jens, he simply had to stop when he did for the final set to ensure he caught and passed Massa whilst the fragile softs tyres had pace.  :good: The whole strategy required careful driving so it was imperative for Jens to keep clear of cars that would hold him up or take wear from his tyres (as explained in Massa para above), oh and know which following cars he needed to hold up & when. ....."Simples"  :yahoo: :yahoo: 

« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 10:54:58 AM by John S »
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Online cosworth151

Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2013, 01:07:03 PM »
I think the current crop of tracks adds to this problem. Herr Tilke seems to think that the only proper "passing zone" is a long straight with a tight turn at the end.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2013, 03:24:49 PM »
Too bad Alia, if you could do that before the race, I am sure we would have no chance with you in GG.

If I could do it before the race, I wouldn't be doing GG because I wouldn't watch a completely foregone conclusion. It's difficult enough persuading myself to watch a race after the half-dozen-lap pattern sets in.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Irisado

Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2013, 03:55:46 PM »
Time limit it and let the drivers use it whenever/wherever they like.  They can combine a strategy of KRS with the tire strategy and put in fast laps when they need it.  Might actually give some of the slower teams a bit of a leg up now and then if they use it correctly as well.

If a driver plunges straight into the guard rail at Eau Rouge, and does himself an injury, the outcry would be astronomical.  Drivers will always look to go as fast as possible, and may well use it in completely inappropriate places on the track if this were implemented, so I don't think that it's a good idea at all.

Quote
I'm pretty pleased to watch races with position changes.  Heckuva lot better than NOT.  There could be better ways to do it, but until they figure them out, I'll go with what we have now.  F1 will never become what it once was - and thank god for that.  Just enjoy the best that the era has to offer.

Artificial overtaking along straights is not exciting Scott.  I'd rather see no passes than ridiculously easy passes.  In any case, just having the Pirelli tyres alone would mean that you wouldn't go back to the poor levels of overtaking that we had in the late 1990s/early 2000s.  Tyre wear generates overtaking in corners.  DRS isn't necessary.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Scott

Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2013, 05:44:28 PM »
If a driver plunges straight into the guard rail at Eau Rouge, and does himself an injury, the outcry would be astronomical.  Drivers will always look to go as fast as possible, and may well use it in completely inappropriate places on the track if this were implemented, so I don't think that it's a good idea at all.
A driver can plunge straight into the guard rail at Eau Rouge without using DRS.  You can't seriously be using that as an argument.  If one is so stupid to use it there, well...  :DntKnw:

Define inappropriate.  And for whom?  If they spend their DRS time in stupid or pointless places, then it is their waste (mind you, everyone racing the last few laps, gates open to the finish line would be fun to watch).  If they, on the other hand, learn to use it in practical and strategic places, then it would work just fine.

I think it's a great idea, but then I would, wouldn't I.  :D
Quote
Artificial overtaking along straights is not exciting Scott.  I'd rather see no passes than ridiculously easy passes.  In any case, just having the Pirelli tyres alone would mean that you wouldn't go back to the poor levels of overtaking that we had in the late 1990s/early 2000s.  Tyre wear generates overtaking in corners.  DRS isn't necessary.
I didn't say I liked the overtaking, I said I liked the 'position changes'. What really drove me nuts pre-DRS was that it was a real event to have the finishing order differ from the starting grid except for the odd accident, but more often mechanical DNF or if someone really screwed up their Q time or pit stop.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2013, 07:05:58 PM »
I might be a minority, but I love DRS. Yes it makes the race look a bit artificial, and the guy in front is a sitting duck, but still it gives you some wheel to wheel action . I think without DRS and Pirelli's fragile tyres, races would have been much more predictable. If I am not wrong I have seen processions in Cataluniya & Hungaroring, where the winners were decided in 1st Corner, at least these changes has turned these tracks pretty exciting, at least for me.
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Offline John S

Re: Views on the Chinese GP
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2013, 09:03:49 PM »
I might be a minority, but I love DRS. Yes it makes the race look a bit artificial, and the guy in front is a sitting duck, but still it gives you some wheel to wheel action . I think without DRS and Pirelli's fragile tyres, races would have been much more predictable. If I am not wrong I have seen processions in Cataluniya & Hungaroring, where the winners were decided in 1st Corner, at least these changes has turned these tracks pretty exciting, at least for me.

Yeah I agree BD. Last year I was among the chorus of disapproval about the Pirelli tyres causing a lottery. This year however teams all know the chance they are taking in certain circumstances with the tyres,  it's making strategies much more interesting. They are now able to get cars on differing strategies past potential road blockers because of the double dose of DRS. Makes the result a bit more unpredictable until later in the race, when the faster cars will be battling it out, which can only be a good thing, surely.

 
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

 


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