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Author Topic: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1  (Read 2605 times)

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2013, 03:54:04 AM »
Pardon me Alia, but isn't Pirelli repeatedly asking FIA to sort out things from the beginning of the season? How else they may be able to notify FIA? I think if there is someone to blame that should be FIA
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Online lkjohnson1950

Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2013, 06:07:50 AM »
It's beginning to look as though Pirelli is done. The teams (most of them) are unhappy, Bernie would apparently like Hancook to be the new supplier, and now Pirelli has run an illegal test with Mercedes, though they claim they asked permission. Sound like a conspiracy?  :DntKnw:
Lonny

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2013, 06:39:36 PM »
Pardon me Alia, but isn't Pirelli repeatedly asking FIA to sort out things from the beginning of the season? How else they may be able to notify FIA? I think if there is someone to blame that should be FIA

Pirelli were given permission to sort it out in a specific way. It does not appear to have been done that way. Either the FIA instructed them wrongly or Pirelli exceeded their permitted boundaries. Or both.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2013, 07:20:38 PM »
I think the answer is both, and now I am looking how FIA conduct an investigation against themselves, and if they are found guilty, how would they implement a punishment themselves?? :DntKnw: :DntKnw:

If the time of Pirelli is coming to an end, I think they did put a great show in this short tenure, where they were able to snatch the spot-light from Bernie, remain talk of the season  :good: :good:
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Offline John S

Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2013, 07:44:26 PM »
I think the answer is both, and now I am looking how FIA conduct an investigation against themselves, and if they are found guilty, how would they implement a punishment themselves?? :DntKnw: :DntKnw:


In Max's day everyone would be punished with a good thrashing from Miss Whiplash.  :D  It's why so many things go wrong.  ;)   :DD

 
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2013, 01:44:50 AM »
I think the answer is both, and now I am looking how FIA conduct an investigation against themselves, and if they are found guilty, how would they implement a punishment themselves?? :DntKnw: :DntKnw:

The FIA has tacitly admitted error exactly twice that I can remember since I started watching F1, and both of them were decisions that went in Jordan's favour on appeal back in the early 2000s*. They never admit fault nor punish themselves, but they sure are good at shifting the blame elsewhere.

* - The first one was USA 2001, when Jarno Trulli would have been thrown out for plank wear, had one of the stewards not gone home early and thus not signed the paperwork. The official appeal was won on the grounds of unsafe conviction. His 5th place was thus reinstated and I think the AWOL steward lost his licence. Then, in Brazil 2003, Giancarlo Fisichella would have lost the race had Jordan not been in a position to provide telemetry that proved the version of events originally used by the FIA was wrong. Fisico was given the win and the timing provider was quietly sacked at the end of the year.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline f1bettings

Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2013, 04:47:19 AM »
Does Pirelli really want to be left out of F1?  It is the pinnacle of racing and F1 does huge PR boost for them.  For them not to be there anymore is probably damaging for their brand and reputation.  They will work something out.

Offline monty

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Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2013, 07:19:43 AM »
My first comment is : who says the Mercedes test was illegal?
It is under investigation but it is obvious that the FIA knew of the intention to carry out a test with current cars so informed opinion says it will be ratified as legal and necessary.
Regarding why Pirelli may chose to go; involvement in F1 costs them millions and the PR has been mostly bad - have any of you rushed out to buy Pirelli tyres because of F1? I have Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres on my sports car and Continental Sports on my saloon both chosen because they are rated to be the best tyres for the cars.

vintly

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Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2013, 09:59:16 AM »
I confess to not having read the whole thread, so apologies if this is repeating what's already been said.

Regardless of all the intricate legal schmegal (which usually gets 'bent' a bit anyway because one clause or another isn't 100% binding), I remember Pirelli at the beginning of the season, saying words to the effect: 'We need to know by June if we're producing tyres for 2014, or we will struggle to develop them in time.'

Well, it's June.

Offline John S

Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2013, 10:00:47 AM »

I agree Monty the test in question is the subject of investigation because some teams protested it and has yet to be declared illegal.

I know teams push regulations to the limits. and even exceed them on a regular basis, however is it really plausible that Merc would have run a whole three day test without some sort of nod from someone in authority? It now looks like Charlie certainly knew of the test, supposedly a reference he made to it in a drivers association meeting  led to the cat leaping from the bag.  :D

 
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline cosworth151

Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2013, 05:52:57 PM »
It looks like the FIA, in their usual fashion, have made it more trouble than it's worth. I don't see any other manufacturers queuing up to supply tires.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2013, 10:26:49 PM »
My first comment is : who says the Mercedes test was illegal?
It is under investigation but it is obvious that the FIA knew of the intention to carry out a test with current cars so informed opinion says it will be ratified as legal and necessary.

If the FIA wasn't informed of the exact date and location so that it could send an observer to check the rules were followed, the test was illegal.

If FIA permission was not acquired for the exact test once all relevant details (date, location, resource commitment necessary etc) were confirmed, it was illegal.

If not all teams were informed of the test once all relevant details (date, location, resource commitment necessary etc) were confirmed, it was illegal.

If the test wasn't offered to all teams equally once all relevant details (date, location, resource commitment necessary etc) were confirmed, it was illegal.

If the test was set up without regard to the correct clearance procedures as defined in the regulations, it was illegal.

If the test was obtained on false grounds, it was illegal. (Getting vague permission for non-specified tests from half the teams five months beforehand does not make this specific one legal).

If the test caused Pirelli to exceed its total permitted test running of 1000 km per year, it was illegal.

If the test occurred without a FIA observer, it was illegal (as there is no method of verifying independently whether such rules as the "no experimental aero components" one were followed).

If attempts are made to hide the nature or primary findings of the test (beyond the usual ones to prevent premature release of information to teams with good spies), it was illegal.

Evidence has been given suggesting all of the above rules were broken. That's why Pirelli have a problem.

(I've heard a number of rumours as to how word escaped of the true nature of the test, including painting both drivers individually, an anonymous Mercedes shareholder and a journalist who happened to overhear a conversation some Merc people thought was private and mistaking it for common knowledge. The only common thread being that the drivers' briefing and/or adjoining GPDA meeting at Monaco is always the place, or at least the time, where the leak happened).
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline John S

Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2013, 01:07:39 AM »


Pirelli failing to notify the FIA is what's binding them. If they walk out they'll have broken their contractual obligation (the September 1 thing is not there without reason!) and that's why they'd be fined. The FIA's free to use someone else for 2014, but Pirelli is not free to simply walk out.

If the FIA chooses another team, Pirelli will simply have to throw away any investment they've made which depended on the FIA choosing them. Pirelli is bound to the FIA, but the FIA is by no means bound to Pirelli. It's not a very nice deal, but Pirelli signed it...


I'm not sure that is quite right, the legitimacy of a contract can only apply whilst you are in contract. Should the contract period end without renewal any notice period will become null and void. The present contract for this season clearly does not have 12 months left to run.

Whilst future options can obviously exist, for them to be enforceable a contract must have been created addressing the responsibilities of the parties involved for the future. No lawyer's going to allow a publicly owned company to sign an enforceable one sided agreement that could cost millions if the other party just chooses to walk away, not sure any court would, or even could, enforce such an agreement either. Also should the FIA put 2014 out to competitive tender any future agreement becomes null and void, negating any detailed future notice period.



       
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 01:28:52 AM by John S »
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Online lkjohnson1950

Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2013, 04:34:12 AM »
Haven't we all had enough experience to know that F1 contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on? There is always a loophole a Lawyer can use to dump it.
Lonny

Offline monty

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Re: Pirelli threatens to pull out of F1
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2013, 02:01:34 PM »
Nothing is 'illegal' until a court of law deems it to be.
The latest reports seem to suggest what we all feared - the FIA burying their 'corporate' head in the sand and letting a few individuals take the can.
Nobody has denied that Charlie Whiting knew about, and agreed to, the test but now they are saying this is 'irrelevant'.
So Charlie could be one of the individuals that gets hung.

 


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