Should FIA put brakes on tyre critisisms by teams?

[Scott]

I think most of the problem with that is the tires need to be FIA certified.  If the FIA kept their noses out of it, and just wrote regulations determining size and weight and then left the teams alone to source their own rubber, it would be much better.  The FIA will swear up and down that it is only about safety, but we know better...the FIA wants its cut.  If the teams had to source their own tires, you know they would do a very good job regarding both safety (blown tires hurt expensive drivers and expensive cars) and compounds (every advantage counts, so I'm sure the teams would design the car with the tire manufacturer along side so they would both profit from the most speed.

So, once again, it is simply about either the FIA and/or the FOM getting their cut. 

[cosworth151]

ALMS has been letting the teams cut their own tire deals (in most of the top classes) for years. It's worked great. No reason at all why F1 couldn't do the same.

I hope NASCAR doesn't screw that up as the merger goes forward.

[Jericoke]

I think most of the problem with that is the tires need to be FIA certified.  If the FIA kept their noses out of it, and just wrote regulations determining size and weight and then left the teams alone to source their own rubber, it would be much better.  The FIA will swear up and down that it is only about safety, but we know better...the FIA wants its cut.  If the teams had to source their own tires, you know they would do a very good job regarding both safety (blown tires hurt expensive drivers and expensive cars) and compounds (every advantage counts, so I'm sure the teams would design the car with the tire manufacturer along side so they would both profit from the most speed.

So, once again, it is simply about either the FIA and/or the FOM getting their cut.

Let's ask Ayrton Senna how an F1 team will put safety ahead of saving a little weight?

An unregulated tire free for all will not be safer.

Now, if you don't mind watching a few crashes in the interest of pushing the envelope of the sport, then I'm all for it.  As long as the crash barriers are in place, and existing monocoque crash structures remain regulated, I think that edge pushing tires have a place in F1.

[Scott]

WAAAAAY over the top Jeri. 

Last I heard Ayrton's crash was caused by a weld coming apart in the steering column.  Blown tire had nothing to do with his crash or death. 

A company that has to pay millions to the FIA for the privilege of serving tires to F1 (which teams are obliged to buy as per the regulations) just might cut corners to save money in some places (maybe places that affect safety) to make up for what evaporated into the FIA FOM coffers.  Now a tire company who was getting paid only by a couple or a few F1 teams directly, a company that would have had to submit every blueprint of their tire construction, every property of their compounds to that F1 team directly, wouldn't cut any corners to save money (because they want and need the business).  Just sayin...

Don't forget, it was Michelin who pulled their tires from Indy, not the FIA.  The FIA and FOM wanted a full grid...safety be damned.  Told the Michelin runners to drive at 80% or something like that. 

[cosworth151]

Michelin had different tires flown in from France. Michelin, FOM, GPDA and Indy all agreed that a chicane in Turn 13 would fix the situation. The FIA nixed both solutions.

[Scott]

Michelin had different tires flown in from France. Michelin, FOM, GPDA and Indy all agreed that a chicane in Turn 13 would fix the situation. The FIA nixed both solutions.

And I believe at that point the FIA told the Michelin runners to drive at 80%, and Michelin and the teams agreed to withdraw.

[Irisado]

No to refuelling.  It was dangerous, and didn't improve the show at all.  That's one things from the era I started watching F1 in which I don't miss.

[Jericoke]

WAAAAAY over the top Jeri. 

Last I heard Ayrton's crash was caused by a weld coming apart in the steering column.  Blown tire had nothing to do with his crash or death. 

A company that has to pay millions to the FIA for the privilege of serving tires to F1 (which teams are obliged to buy as per the regulations) just might cut corners to save money in some places (maybe places that affect safety) to make up for what evaporated into the FIA FOM coffers.  Now a tire company who was getting paid only by a couple or a few F1 teams directly, a company that would have had to submit every blueprint of their tire construction, every property of their compounds to that F1 team directly, wouldn't cut any corners to save money (because they want and need the business).  Just sayin...

Don't forget, it was Michelin who pulled their tires from Indy, not the FIA.  The FIA and FOM wanted a full grid...safety be damned.  Told the Michelin runners to drive at 80% or something like that. 

My apologies Scott.

I didn't mean to suggest suggest that tires had anything to do with any accidents in F1, just the general idea that left to their own devices F1 teams tend towards the 'winning' side of a very blurry 'win' vs 'safe' line.

It's fair to suggest FIA may be out to get their cut, but there have been tremendous leaps in safety in F1 as well.

[lkjohnson1950]

Don't know if it was ever determined why the steering column failed on Senna's car, but it was bottoming badly just before the accident, much more than anyone else. He was running it very low to pick up some traction. And Colin Chapman was notorious for cutting it very close to the edge in the pursuit of lightness. Once after an accident Clark angrily confronted him saying "You damned near killed me that time". During Clark's time the teams made their own tire deals, Dunlop, Goodyear, Firestone all came and went. Lotus lost most of 2 seasons when Firestone dropped out because Goodyear's tires were not to Lotus' specs. I fear what would happen is a tire company would align itself with a major team (like Ferrari, remember?), optimize the tires for that team and leave the smaller teams scrambling to use tires less suited to their cars.

[Scott]

left to their own devices F1 teams tend towards the 'winning' side of a very blurry 'win' vs 'safe' line.

It's fair to suggest FIA may be out to get their cut, but there have been tremendous leaps in safety in F1 as well.

I think the tire companies would have a more difficult time living up to the standards of the teams in both safety AND performance vs those of the FIA.

There was a time, not so long ago, that the FIA actually fought against increased safety measures.  I just hope the FIA's primary goal doesn't get blurred between safety vs money.

[cosworth151]

Sports endurance racing manage to refuel their cars safely. So does IndyCar. Even NASCAR does it all the time. I don't see why F1 couldn't handle it. They would probably have to do without the high speed, pressurized fuel rigs & go with gravity feed, but they could do it.

[John S]

Sports endurance racing manage to refuel their cars safely. So does IndyCar. Even NASCAR does it all the time. I don't see why F1 couldn't handle it. They would probably have to do without the high speed, pressurized fuel rigs & go with gravity feed, but they could do it.

Sure they could do it, but without the pressurised rigs pit stops would seem like an eternity.   
Not F1 style to be stationery for too long when 10ths of a second matter.   

 

[Alianora La Canta]

The FIA's excuse is it was trying to make F1 more exciting in this case - nothing to do with safety (they believed imposing a single tyre manufacturer was sufficient from a safety angle). Doubtless it is getting a cut from it, but it also fits in with the general agenda of artificially attempting to make the racing more exciting using measures that make it less exciting.

Canada has one of the shortest pit lanes on the calendar, so there's a benefit to doing more pit stops - usually. Also, the track is less abrasive than many others. So it is hardly a surprise that the safety problem didn't raise its head. Besides, you can't really complain about tyre wear when Paul di Resta makes one set last 58 laps (including the formation lap), and could probably have done the whole race on them had he felt like it...

The pit stops in sportscars are done with gravity-based units, and while refuelling no other work is permitted. It would be so slow to impose that system on F1 that refuelling would effectively still be banned - you need higher fuel consumption, a slower pit lane, lower-performance cars and/or a longer race to make gravity-based refuelling work.

I'm pretty neutral about "overtaking in the pit lane". At least that version required skill, which is more than what most of what is called "overtaking" post-2011 is, so it would be an improvement on the current situation. However, the ideal remains getting actual skill-based overtaking to occur on-track. If such skill-based overtaking could be arranged, then pit stops would reduce some of the quality. Nobody in the paddock seems ready to engage with that particular matter.

Given Pirelli's behaviour with the Mercedes test, the only way to decontaminate the 2014 championship would be to expel Pirelli from the championship (2013 is already fatally compromised). If that means having to give everyone some spec tyres left over from a spec junior series, or cut a deal for some excess endurance tyres from sportscars, the so be it. But complaints about Pirelli are very much legitimate and justified.

[lkjohnson1950]

Wow! Pretty harsh Alia! Based on Canada's results, Merc didn't improve much from their test. Finished more or less where they would have without it. I think that without the degrading tires we would have seen a lot more R/B wins and a lot of Vettel runaways.

[F1fanaticBD]

Given Pirelli's behaviour with the Mercedes test, the only way to decontaminate the 2014 championship would be to expel Pirelli from the championship (2013 is already fatally compromised).

I would like to differ here Alianora, because I believe Pirelli did nothing wrong while testing tyre with a manufacturer, which they are allowed to ask and conduct. And they kept all the information gathered from the test within themselves. If anybody is the guilty party in this saga, its Mercedes, as they have used a current spec car, which is not legal