Pirelli still may ditch F1 next year, proper car tests big issue

[John S]

No deal in place so Pirelli getting real feisty.     

All very well for the sport to appear safety conscious by over addressing safety concerns in pit lane, with now a second further ban on personnel, whilst totally ignoring tyre suppliers need to have both enough time and most up to date test machinery to work with. Who can blame Pirelli if they chuck it in at the end of the season? 

Pirelli motorsport boss Paul Hembery says things have to change if they are to stay in Formula 1 next year.
While Hembery insists Pirelli are keen to stay on in their role as F1 tyre supplier, he says there is currently no deal in place for 2014 and any new agreement will have to feature some changes to prevent them from walking away.

The relationship between Pirelli and the sport must evolve, says Hembery, and first on the agenda is allowing the manufacturer to test its tyres on current cars to aid with development.

"At the moment we have no real indication what the 2014 cars are going to be like and in a couple of months we're meant to be all ready to go," he told ESPNF1.

"I guess it's not in the teams' briefs to understand what our problems are or our needs are. In the past when previous suppliers have been in they had a few years of tyre competition so you do more in one week of tyre testing than we've done in three years. That creates a lot of knowledge and a lot of background, which we've not been able to do.

"We've only really performed a proper tyre test - when you've been running 14/15 specifications, short runs, long runs - we've only done it once with a current car in three years and that's simply not good enough.

"They're things that have to change, we couldn't possibly risk putting ourselves in that situation again. There's no doubt it has to change. If the sport doesn't want to change then they can find someone else. We want to stay obviously but we need to make some changes, we can't just keep talking about it, things now have to change."

Hembery added that there is a growing friction between themselves and the teams, which isn't making things any easier.

"The teams in the first year were quite a lot better at working together and we've seen that dissipate over the last two and a half years," he said.

"That's not just with us, I think there's lots of things going on there behind the scenes with new agreements - the Concorde Agreement - and things like that, some teams struggling, so there's a lot more friction between the teams than we've seen before. Whilst individually we have fantastic support from all of them, collectively it's not quite there.

"We know going forward that a lot of things have to change and that's something that we need to have fixed because we can't be in a situation like this again."

Planetf1.com, Friday 19th July.

[Jericoke]

I had a bit of a radical thought:  it's not unheard of for engine suppliers to create their own car/team.  It's not unheard of for sponsors to create their own car/team. 

Why not a tire supplier create their own car/team?  Each race would effectively be a tire test with the latest spec car.  The tire team might be seen to have an advantage, but I don't see that it's a bigger advantage than Mercedes running their own engine, or McLaren running their own electronics.

[F1fanaticBD]

I pity Pirelli, they are doing a great job, doing exactly what they were asked to do, turning up with exciting rubbers, and yet they are facing PR disaster, while on the other hand FIA/FOM they are making life harder for Pirelli and yet they are not even under the radar.

[Alianora La Canta]

I had a bit of a radical thought:  it's not unheard of for engine suppliers to create their own car/team.  It's not unheard of for sponsors to create their own car/team. 

Why not a tire supplier create their own car/team?  Each race would effectively be a tire test with the latest spec car.  The tire team might be seen to have an advantage, but I don't see that it's a bigger advantage than Mercedes running their own engine, or McLaren running their own electronics.

Not allowed, due to Pirelli supplying a spec tyre. Spec item providers can't compete in the series they provide spec equipment to, because of the unequal equipment issue.

If Pirelli had been honest in the first place, none of these problems would have happened. As it stands, it's simply reaping the effects of its own behaviour - it played politics and lost. It has shown itself to be utterly untrustworthy and then acts surprised that teams don't trust them. (The FOM playing "divide and conquer" against the teams and the FIA ceding its power to FOM and Pirelli haven't helped).

At this rate, thanks to Bernie trying to get individual deals with each team instead of doing a joint one through Concorde (that being part of Concorde's purpose), there's no chance of Pirelli getting what it wants, because Marussia will never sign an agreement which means it receives no money, and Bernie shows no signs of offering an agreement which means Marussia will even get the plane transport paid (as it currently does - along with getting a $10 m "new team" payment). Until Marussia and Bernie sign something, Pirelli cannot receive a guarantee because there's nothing to guarantee anything with.

[Jericoke]

I had a bit of a radical thought:  it's not unheard of for engine suppliers to create their own car/team.  It's not unheard of for sponsors to create their own car/team. 

Why not a tire supplier create their own car/team?  Each race would effectively be a tire test with the latest spec car.  The tire team might be seen to have an advantage, but I don't see that it's a bigger advantage than Mercedes running their own engine, or McLaren running their own electronics.

Not allowed, due to Pirelli supplying a spec tyre. Spec item providers can't compete in the series they provide spec equipment to, because of the unequal equipment issue.

Don't all teams use a standard spec McLaren ECU?

I know the engines aren't technically spec, but the designs are so locked down they might as well be.

If the FIA allowed multiple tire suppliers, would they then allow the tire suppliers to own a team?

[lkjohnson1950]

I would hate to lose any races, much less a full season, but it would be interesting to see Pirelli walk away and the FIA and Bernie scramble to find a replacement. A lot of potential suppliers have already said no. Unless bernie has someone in his back pocket, they are playing with fire. i don't think Pirelli has been untrustworthy. They believe their contract allows them to do tests like the one they did with Mercedes. They have in fact said they are considering taking the FIA to court over it. Merc was not the first team they asked, and they approached Charlie Whiting, who is the FIA's point man for F1, about it and got what they thought was an OK. 

[vintly]

I had a bit of a radical thought:  it's not unheard of for engine suppliers to create their own car/team.  It's not unheard of for sponsors to create their own car/team. 

Why not a tire supplier create their own car/team?  Each race would effectively be a tire test with the latest spec car.  The tire team might be seen to have an advantage, but I don't see that it's a bigger advantage than Mercedes running their own engine, or McLaren running their own electronics.

Not allowed, due to Pirelli supplying a spec tyre. Spec item providers can't compete in the series they provide spec equipment to, because of the unequal equipment issue.

Don't all teams use a standard spec McLaren ECU?

I know the engines aren't technically spec, but the designs are so locked down they might as well be.

If the FIA allowed multiple tire suppliers, would they then allow the tire suppliers to own a team?

Rules are there to be bent, changed, amended, replaced, broken, and occasionally adhered to.

Nice bit of lateral thinking Jeri 

[Scott]

As feisty as they get, I hope they don't walk out at the end of the season.  F1 would be in a really bad way if they do.

[Jericoke]

I would hate to lose any races, much less a full season, but it would be interesting to see Pirelli walk away and the FIA and Bernie scramble to find a replacement. A lot of potential suppliers have already said no. Unless bernie has someone in his back pocket, they are playing with fire. i don't think Pirelli has been untrustworthy. They believe their contract allows them to do tests like the one they did with Mercedes. They have in fact said they are considering taking the FIA to court over it. Merc was not the first team they asked, and they approached Charlie Whiting, who is the FIA's point man for F1, about it and got what they thought was an OK. 

So the danger lies in Bernie's ability to strike a deal?

Then I doubt there's any danger at all.  (Unless he finds himself in a German prison I suppose.)

[Alianora La Canta]

I had a bit of a radical thought:  it's not unheard of for engine suppliers to create their own car/team.  It's not unheard of for sponsors to create their own car/team. 

Why not a tire supplier create their own car/team?  Each race would effectively be a tire test with the latest spec car.  The tire team might be seen to have an advantage, but I don't see that it's a bigger advantage than Mercedes running their own engine, or McLaren running their own electronics.

Not allowed, due to Pirelli supplying a spec tyre. Spec item providers can't compete in the series they provide spec equipment to, because of the unequal equipment issue.

Don't all teams use a standard spec McLaren ECU?

I know the engines aren't technically spec, but the designs are so locked down they might as well be.

If the FIA allowed multiple tire suppliers, would they then allow the tire suppliers to own a team?

McLaren Automotive is classed as a separate company to McLaren F1, and even then the move was highly controversial at the time because they were in the same group. However, the automotive world is now too internecine to enable effective spec separation arrangements unless the division is by company rather than group.

The engines are not literally spec, which for the FIA is a very precise definition. It means one organisation provides one type of item to everyone in a given series (unless it's something like fuel, in which case, it provides one type of a permitted fuel source to each team). A F1 team can choose between Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes engines, which by the FIA's definition means F1 engines are not spec, and the rule does not apply. It would be different if a single company supplied all 11 teams and was contracted to provide all of them equal ones.

If the FIA allowed multiple tyre companies, then yes, all of them could own a team (or more) each. It's only the spec issue that prevents it.