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Poll

Will Massa keep his Ferrari seat on F1 grid next season?

YES - he's still the best option for Ferrari
2 (15.4%)
NO - he's definetly for the chop
5 (38.5%)
Maybe - he just needs a few good results
6 (46.2%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Voting closed: July 28, 2013, 12:43:09 PM

Author Topic: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?  (Read 2014 times)

vintly

  • Guest
Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2013, 08:36:27 AM »
He can be quick - this is precisely the issue. He should be quick all the time. And he's boring.

Offline Scott

Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2013, 11:38:47 AM »
I think it depends on what sponsors Massa can bring, and what sponsors a hypothetical replacement can bring.

I don't see Ferrari looking for a pay driver.  Sponsorship has nothing to do with their driver choice.

I'm sure it was a coincidence that a Spanish bank paid enough to kick the last Ferrari champion out of the sport to make room for a Spanish driver...

Not really what we are talking about.  I don't think you'd call Alonso a pay driver to his face. 

Point is, Massa has not brought along any sponsorship to Ferrari before, why would they expect it now...and secondly, does Ferrari even really NEED any driver sponsorship money (except maybe to pay for Kobi's crashes)?
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Jericoke

Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2013, 03:31:08 PM »
I think it depends on what sponsors Massa can bring, and what sponsors a hypothetical replacement can bring.

I don't see Ferrari looking for a pay driver.  Sponsorship has nothing to do with their driver choice.

I'm sure it was a coincidence that a Spanish bank paid enough to kick the last Ferrari champion out of the sport to make room for a Spanish driver...

Not really what we are talking about.  I don't think you'd call Alonso a pay driver to his face. 

Point is, Massa has not brought along any sponsorship to Ferrari before, why would they expect it now...and secondly, does Ferrari even really NEED any driver sponsorship money (except maybe to pay for Kobi's crashes)?

Anyone who owns Chrysler needs as much supplementary income as possible  >:D

I think we've already discussed in other threads how important it is for drivers to bring many aspects, not just speed, not just glad handing, not just powerful friends.  I think Massa is a great driver, and seems like a great guy.  He knows his role at Ferrari, and that's worth a lot.  However, if an equally talented, younger driver with a couple years experience, with rich friends, is willing to be #2 at Ferrari then they have to consider it.

Offline Scott

Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2013, 05:38:58 PM »
Again, I think Ferrari would only look at the equally talented portion of your statement vs a salary a great deal less than Massa's (supposedly around $10m).
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2013, 07:20:36 PM »
I have a replacement in mind and his
initials are GF.

I don't think Fisi would like to make a comeback, as because he is really enjoying his times in the sportscar. But I would like to have the opinion of our in-house Fisi expert Alia, whether Fisi should be considered as the potential driver for 2014 season for Ferrari F1 team.
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Offline cosworth151

Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2013, 08:52:59 PM »
Gerald Ford?  :o Ain't he dead?

No, Lonny, Gert Frobe. Germans are hot in F1 right now.

Seriously, I'd love to see Trulli or Fisi get a shot at it.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2013, 03:33:58 AM »
 :DD :DD :DD :DD

Actually Jeri, FIAT is doing pretty well in charge at Chrysler. Darts are beginning to sell now that they have an auto tranny. CR just named the RAM 1500 the best truck. And the 300 is still doing pretty well.
Lonny

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2013, 03:51:06 AM »
Again, I think Ferrari would only look at the equally talented portion of your statement vs a salary a great deal less than Massa's (supposedly around $10m).

If I am not wrong there is an opening in the Red Bull, and if you check their short-list, there is no room for money, there is only room for talent to keep the constructors championship. Now if there is an opening in Ferrari why would they think otherwise. And I think the last thing Ferrari have in their mind is a pay-driver. Yes Alonso comes with a hefty bank-roll of Banco Santander, but even without that, Ferrari or any team would love to have the service of this guy.

I think the teams are a bit conservative with driver selection, as because there is very limited scope for testing, so until and unless you are a proven prodigy, big teams will not risk of running a new guy. Though McLaren did pitch relatively inexperienced Sergio, but with a dog of a car like that, he did stir some controversy, and banging wheels with his team-mate at least proves he got the pace, but the issue of temperament is a different issue.

But in the end, we know Ferrari has the irresistible allure to the drivers, if it offers its seat to any driver, I think except for Vettel & Kimi, there is no-one in the paddock who will even dare to refuse it   
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Offline Irisado

Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2013, 02:42:11 PM »
I think that he'll probably keep his seat.  He just needs a few good results here and there, and it will be a done deal.  I can't see many good candidates who could replace him.  He's also pretty compliant with the way in which the Ferrari management runs the team, so that's another reason they would want to keep him if at all possible.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2013, 09:11:51 AM »
I have a replacement in mind and his
initials are GF.

It's entirely possible the "GF" you have in mind might be a defending world champion (for the second time in a row) by that point* - and yes, he is thoroughly enjoying himself in the process ;) . Ferrari need world titles in something considerably more than they need a specific #2 to Alonso, so are unlikely to let him try to do both jobs at once, let alone do an F1-only year. Paradoxically, if he was doing a worse job, Ferrari might have considered him...

Ferrari had lost faith in Kimi - remember the negotiations to remove him started in the early summer of 2009, when Felipe was routinely beating Kimi despite being on a much smaller salary, and being much more helpful to team development and morale to boot. Life in the largest team in F1 is very complicated and Kimi cannot bring his best game to the sport unless he is allowed to delegate the "extraneous" parts of his job to other team members - and focus on the driving and needful elements of associated tasks. Ferrari is wired the opposite way to Kimi, and needs its lead driver to be a "chief cook and bottle washer"-type. You do everything or you're only good as a #2 driver - and Kimi's nobody's idea of a #2 driver!

I simply don't think Ferrari's as desperate as they were last year for a Massa replacement. If no obvious candidates appear (and remember they've got to be significantly worse than Alonso, so there's less wriggle room than first appears to be the case), then I don't think they'll be terribly upset to keep Felipe exactly where he is. The Massa of 2008 would have been a problem to Ferrari. The more subdued Massa of 2012/2013 is a near-perfect compliment to Alonso.

* - Specifically, Fisico and his team-mate Gianmaria Bruni are the current GTE world champions in WEC. If the car can be improved a little, or BoP decisions go their way, they would likely end up champions again. This is despite having a rather... ...unco-operative car due to a bad break on BoP, and some seriously bad luck with both weather and Safety Cars at Le Mans (a double-points-scoring round). Ferrari considers that championship quite important because it's a good testing ground for improvements to their road cars.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

vintly

  • Guest
Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2013, 11:05:58 AM »
The whole concept of a no. 2 driver who is specifically weak enough not to trouble the no. 1 driver is, in my opinion, a weak strategy. It's treading water at best, and assumes that the no. 1 driver can't handle pressure from within the team. This all seems to fit the Ferrari / Alonso model, but I don't think it will help the team particularly.

If a no. 2 driver repeatedly beats the no. 1 driver then you have a new no. 1 driver who is better than the last one, simple!

I know this is an overly-simplified viewpoint, but I think 'playing it safe' is such a turn-off in sport. I'll be amazed if Massa stays, almost anyone else would be better.

Take risks, be bold, to the victor the spoils.

Offline Irisado

Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2013, 11:19:42 AM »
Almost anyone?  Err, I think that's a bit of an exaggeration.

Yes, there are better candidates, but most of those are world champions, and they are not going to be joining Ferrari at this time.  Massa's still solid enough compared to a lot of the rest of the grid.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline cosworth151

Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2013, 12:51:53 PM »
Quote
If a no. 2 driver repeatedly beats the no. 1 driver then you have a new no. 1 driver who is better than the last one, simple!

Do you really expect logic from and F1 team, especially Ferrari?  ;)

It's not a question of having a weak driver for #2. It's simply finding a good driver who's willing to assume the role of unquestioned #2 in exchange for being a Ferrari driver. RBR is searching for just such a driver right now.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

vintly

  • Guest
Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2013, 01:02:58 PM »
Slight exaggeration, but 'almost anyone better' refers to more than simply other drivers who have historically been faster, or previous champs, or drivers currently on more points. I'm also talking about some of this year's rookies, who apart from being considerably cheaper, have also shown themselves to keep the car on the track a whole lot better than Massa has managed this season.

I agree, he's 'solid enough' and I understand the logic of keeping him, I just rather they didn't because it means less fun for me. If that's what Ferrari want then fine. I'm no Ferrari fan, but I want them to be absolutely as fast and challenging as possible, and Massa ain't it.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Is Massa's F1 seat at Ferrari up for grabs?
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2013, 03:25:16 PM »
The whole concept of a no. 2 driver who is specifically weak enough not to trouble the no. 1 driver is, in my opinion, a weak strategy. It's treading water at best, and assumes that the no. 1 driver can't handle pressure from within the team. This all seems to fit the Ferrari / Alonso model, but I don't think it will help the team particularly.

If a no. 2 driver repeatedly beats the no. 1 driver then you have a new no. 1 driver who is better than the last one, simple!

I know this is an overly-simplified viewpoint, but I think 'playing it safe' is such a turn-off in sport. I'll be amazed if Massa stays, almost anyone else would be better.

Take risks, be bold, to the victor the spoils.

We know from the mid-2000s that the one thing Alonso can't stand is challenge from his team-mate. His performances stay intact but it impairs his ability to do the off-track things like act as the team morale officer. So if a team needs the off-track stuff doing, then it has to look to the other driver to do them. Some drivers can do that but most can't... ...and even then, it's a difficult job managing Alonso and his frustration in that specific scenario. McLaren failed quite blatantly, and I can think of at least one occasion at Renault where Fisi had to do some quick damage control work to prevent something similar. Since then, Alonso's not had a team-mate strong enough to check whether he's still got that Achilles heel.

Ferrari is one of the few teams that believes the formal #1/#2 concept has value (indeed, I've seen it written more than once that its management believes any other structure is unnatural, hypocritical and therefore cowardly). Since it's configured to think that way, it is natural to expect it to hire accordingly. It has plainly decided that Alonso is its #1 driver (with good reason), so the other driver has to be one that fits around the needs generated by that choice. Note that any given #1 choice always leads to "gaps" that the #2 driver must fill: only the particulars vary.

I would argue that simply because a driver has better skill does not mean they would be a better fit for the specific position on offer, that are available or, indeed, interested.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

 


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