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Author Topic: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6  (Read 8871 times)

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2013, 12:03:21 PM »
I think there is several difference between an endurance race and F1 race. As F1 cars are able to create a lot of down-force, they are able to go through the track faster than anything else. Also there it is not the engine but also gear-box and many other components which make this not only unique as well as the very best of motor-sports.

Now getting it in line with WEC will make things much interesting for both competitions, as we all know by now Ferrari is considering a project involving LMP1 class from 2015. Now there is much to be done about it, but at least opportunity has emerged, so we can be at least  positive about it. Who knows we might see some manufacturer's from Le Mans may be interested in being an F1 engine supplier.

Endurance cars create a lot of downforce; the fastest of them completed the 24 Hours of Le Mans at an average speed of 148.203 mph (including pit stops) (the 2013 edition was so Safety Car-strewn that the figures are unrepresentative). F1 cars do not manage that kind of average pace any more; even the Italian Grand Prix only had an average speed of 143.501 mph, despite being dry and lacking Safety Cars. The "I can't-believe-it's-not-spec" effect is getting stronger by the year, as tightening regulations restrict what can be done with absolutely everything.

Part of the reason Ferrari's considering LMP1 for 2015 is because it believes LMP1 may be more helpful to it than F1 (though it's not planning on abandoning F1) and besides, it's already proven it can conquer the GT side of that equation (indicating there are Ferrari people ready for that particular challenge). There's no way it could use the F1 engine for the task, as it would need to be capable of lasting the equivalent of 12 F1 races, at a higher pace than it's been asked to do in F1, to be good enough for the job. The reason for allowing the mixing of engines from the two series was to try to persuade LMP1 teams to supply engines to F1 (at the time the announcement was made, Cosworth was bowing out and the other three suppliers hadn't confirmed they'd step up to fill the gap).

F1 used to be the fastest series that wasn't drag or oval racing. That is no longer the case.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2013, 10:32:49 PM »
Comparing average speed of a car in the Circuit of Le Sarthe with that of Monza didn't seemed fair to me, as because in Le Sarthe you have that insane Mulsanne straight which cannot be compared with any circuit with F1 calender. So what I did was to calculate the average lap time of 6 hour Silverstone with the British Grand Prix of 2013 where the LMP1 clocked 1'49.653 while the winner of British GP had an average lap time of
1'47.307 , clearly showing that an F1 car is faster, than LMP1 class car.
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2013, 04:20:46 AM »
Comparing pole laps might be more interesting.
Lonny

Offline cosworth151

Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2013, 12:39:18 PM »
Remember, there hasn't been a real Mulsanne for years. It wasn't bland enough for the apparatchiks at the FIA. They insisted that it be chopped up into little pieces with a series of ridiculous chicanes.  :sick:
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2013, 05:40:48 PM »
Comparing pole laps might be more interesting.

I'd love to, but with the exception of Le Mans, WEC poles are no longer decided by one lap, but an aggregate of four (which must be done by two different drivers)...
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2013, 04:11:20 AM »
I know, I should have said if we only could.  :-[
Lonny

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2013, 10:59:02 PM »
Remember, there hasn't been a real Mulsanne for years. It wasn't bland enough for the apparatchiks at the FIA. They insisted that it be chopped up into little pieces with a series of ridiculous chicanes.  :sick:

Could not agree more.  |-( |-( |-( |-( to FIA for chopping Mulsanne
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2013, 03:21:25 AM »
Don't blame the FIA or the ACO entirely; when the Mercedes started flipping into the trees and the P1 cars approached 250 mph on the Mulsanne, the insurance guys got really nervous. Same reason the 7 liter engines disappeared from NASCAR, restrictor plates appeared at Daytona, and Cosworth DFX engines in ground effects chassis vanished from Indy. All happened when the cars got Too Fast:fool:
Lonny

Offline John S

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Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2013, 10:06:57 AM »

You're right Lonny and it was Mark Webber in one of those Mercs. Wonder if he would still be going back to sports cars if they hadn't got safety more under control?




Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline cosworth151

Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2013, 01:07:39 PM »
The video is Peter Dumbreck flipping the #5 Merc CLK on the Mulsanne during the race. Webber's #4 CLK flipped during quali on Thursday at Indianapolis corner and again during Saturday morning warmup just before Tertre Rouge. The Mulsanne wasn't involved in either of Webber's flips. It was simply faulty aero on the CLK. Merc added a pair of small dive plane fins ahead of each front wheel opening on Friday in an attempt to solve the issue. It didn't work.

Here's Mark's Saturday morning incident.

“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Jericoke

Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2013, 11:15:38 PM »
If the engine sound is really all that important, Harley Davidson should be the sole engine supplier.

I'd say Keith Black. Notice the device on top of the intake manifold. It achieves forced induction without stuffing a cork in the exhaust. It also has almost zero lag. It's called a supercharger, or blower.  :P



Never understood the preference for turbos over supers.

Turbos give you power after you want it, supers give you power when you need it.

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2013, 01:55:48 AM »
On a race car the S/C puts parasitic drag on the engine that limits the top end. On a fuel dragster this is not a problem because they don't rev very high (at least by comparison to F1 engines) and they generally have more power than they can fully use. A modern turbo racing engine has very little lag, because they keep the revs above the boost threshold. Engineers like turbos because they harvest energy (heat and noise) that is otherwise wasted and in next year's F1 engine, any residual lag will be eliminated by the KERS upgrade. They may not sound as cool, but they should be faster and more difficult to drive.
Lonny

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2013, 08:15:55 PM »
On a race car the S/C puts parasitic drag on the engine that limits the top end. On a fuel dragster this is not a problem because they don't rev very high (at least by comparison to F1 engines) and they generally have more power than they can fully use. A modern turbo racing engine has very little lag, because they keep the revs above the boost threshold. Engineers like turbos because they harvest energy (heat and noise) that is otherwise wasted and in next year's F1 engine, any residual lag will be eliminated by the KERS upgrade. They may not sound as cool, but they should be faster and more difficult to drive.

That is why I am ver much looking forward to next year..
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Offline Monty

Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2013, 10:21:23 AM »
There is quite a mix of topics on this thread now. It started on the new V6 engine and the 'noise' was discussed. Whether V12, V10, V8 or V6 normally aspirated, supercharged or turbocharged I have never worried about the 'noise' just as long as they are allowed to make some!
If you hear the 1000cc Moto GP bikes you will know that even small capacity fours can make a fantastic sound!
Then there is a discussion on LMP cars (by the way an F1 car is still significantly faster than any LMP car mostly because of weight). I see that nobody mentions the noise from the LMP cars. To be frank the noise from a turbo-deisel LMP car is truly dismal! I have heard farts that are more exciting yet I have not heard anyone (other than me) complaining about this reducing the excitement of the sport?

Offline cosworth151

Re: Enjoy lap from 2014 Mercesdes F1 V6
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2013, 12:27:28 PM »
Your wish is my command! The first time I heard a turbo diesel Audi in person was at Gurney Bend at Sebring. I thought "WTF!!!!" They sound sick. I can't stand them. But, right after it passed, a non-turbo, V8 Corvette shook the ground as it passed.

That's the point. If you're going to allow turbos, Ok. Just don't mandate them. Allow some real race engines for the fans to hear.

More to the point is that F1 claims to be the pinnacle of motor sports, WEC doesn't. USCR looks like it's pretty much going to be a rebadged version of Grand Am, i.e. a road course version of Legends Cars. Turbos sound horrible. Just look at what's left of IndyCar. Is that what you want for F1? IndyCar without the ovals?
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

 


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