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Author Topic: Views on the Monza GP  (Read 3851 times)

Offline monty

Re: Views on the Monza GP
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2013, 09:00:55 AM »
I really enjoyed the 'race' it is just a shame that Vettel's Red Bull is so good that it isn't part of the 'race'.
(Picture me with gritted teeth) Vettel drove well!
However, if you watched the on-board of the pole lap, the car looks so good I feel that I could have driven it (well almost). I just hope that the reg changes next year will break the Newey dominance.

Offline Ian

Re: Views on the Monza GP
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2013, 12:48:22 PM »
Zero, the grid walk, as much as I like DC and EJ, I'm afraid they just  can't match up to Martin Brundle on the grid walk.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

vintly

  • Guest
Re: Views on the Monza GP
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2013, 01:40:05 PM »
I think you will continue to see Vettel booed everywhere. Not just because people don't like to see him win, but because he has become such a thoroughly dislikable  person. The epitome of the overbearing Teutonic ego maniac.

What scares me is Vettel was once that smiling youngster
that Daniel is now,I hope he doesn't change

I had to bite at this one...

Apart from Vettel's performance in Malaysia, and the silly finger-wagging, what exactly has he done to be so disliked? I didn't like the disdainful way he wanted his team to 'get him (Mark) out of the way', but I don't expect to like everything about him anyway.

Another aspect in this I think is his team-mate. If Webber wasn't such a nice chap, would the anti-Vettel hysteria be quite so virulent? I doubt it. The Marko link - Vettel's fault no doubt. Blatent favouritism within the team - also Vettel's fault I guess - if indeed it exists above a normal level.

And 'overbearing Teutonic ego maniac' - now that is funny.

Jealous maybe :P




Offline cosworth151

Re: Views on the Monza GP
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2013, 01:57:19 PM »
I was a fan of Vettel until Sepang. It wasn't just is inexcusable on-track action. It's his apparent inability to understand why people are upset. If he would have sincerely apologized at that time, the whole affair probably would have blown over. Instead, he's continued to behave like an arrogant, spoiled brat.

I do agree that back stabbing one of the most popular drivers on the circuit has amplified fan reaction.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Scott

Re: Views on the Monza GP
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2013, 02:28:56 PM »
Still haven't watched the race (it's recorded), but I thought I would dive in on the cheering/booing debate. 

In most sports you have both.  Very often it is for an official, rather than a player/athlete (can you imagine if they dragged out the race stewards on the podium for a bit of praise?  I wonder how often they would be ducking thrown beers and facing screaming, booing mobs.), but also very often for an un-punished athlete who has shown unsportsmanlike or selfish behaviour as in Vettel's case, particularly with his teammate.  It can be rude to boo on the podium, but are other fans really offended, or just embarrassed that their hero has done things that have made others angry enough to boo him?  Schumacher was booed as well, often deserved.  When I was a huge Schumacher fan, I witnessed the booing on occasion and honestly I was simply embarrassed, rarely did I think he didn't deserve it.  I don't see how the podium ceremony should be exempt from fan praise or fury, particularly if the place was earned dishonestly.  It sounds like he earned the top step in Monza, but the fact that he is unrepentant about his past behaviour has left lingering fury among his competitors fans.  Good for them. 
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Views on the Monza GP
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2013, 03:24:35 PM »
Apart from his behaviour in Malaysia, there was the incident in Turkey, I believe, where he crashed trying to pass Webber, then indicated he felt it was Webber's fault by circling his ear with his finger. There was the incident in Italy, where he was in 5TH or 6TH and got on the radio saying do something, the car is too slow. He is simply a boor, totally unappreciative of the value of the cars he drives, and over estimating his value as a driver.
Lonny

vintly

  • Guest
Re: Views on the Monza GP
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2013, 09:44:35 PM »
I think the Turkey incident could be read either way, but I do appreciate how his arrogant side has come out a number of times - to his detriment, and cumulatively it adds up to something horrid to many people.

I wasn't a Schumacher fan, and the races became boring for me mainly because of him. I certainly wasn't disenchanted with F1, it was just too predictable and dull. Now a similar thing seems to be happening, but for whatever reason I'm on the other side of the argument, and it's one I won't waste too much time trying to win - that isn't gonna happen!

I sincerely hope the competition picks up its game over the next season or two, it would be awful if F1 lost its shine because of one team's dominance. Hopefully next year - if Raikkonen gets the Ferrari seat - then Fernando throwing his toys out of the pram will take some of the headlines away from Seb ;).

Apologies for twisting the thread off the Monza race. Ahhhhh Monza.

Offline John S

Re: Views on the Monza GP
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2013, 10:00:20 PM »


I wasn't a Schumacher fan, and the races became boring for me mainly because of him. I certainly wasn't disenchanted with F1, it was just too predictable and dull. Now a similar thing seems to be happening, but for whatever reason I'm on the other side of the argument, and it's one I won't waste too much time trying to win - that isn't gonna happen!

I sincerely hope the competition picks up its game over the next season or two, it would be awful if F1 lost its shine because of one team's dominance. Hopefully next year - if Raikkonen gets the Ferrari seat - then Fernando throwing his toys out of the pram will take some of the headlines away from Seb ;).

Apologies for twisting the thread off the Monza race. Ahhhhh Monza.

It has a way of working itself out Vintly. ;) McLarens dominace with the Post?Senna years, Williams with Prost/Hill/Villneuve and then the Schumi Ferrari era. The new Regs next year will shake up the order of things and Seb & Red Bull will fighting fo their lives like all the rest of em.

F1 has always had dominant teams and then suddenly the pendulum swings and new heros and names emerge to claim the prizes. As you say it's for the others to catch up to RBR, never fear they will - it's why we all love F1 so much, they never ever give up.  :good:
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Dare

Re: Views on the Monza GP
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2013, 12:24:36 AM »
I read one article where Alonso said he wanted
a team mate that would work at developing the car,
 I wonder how much better Lotus would have been
this year if Kimi had better work ethics?Seems on
the outside he wants to do what he does all week
show up on Friday and expect to have a perfect car!IMO
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline cosworth151

Re: Views on the Monza GP
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2013, 01:02:38 PM »
I'll cut Vettel some slack on the incident in Turkey. He was climbing out of the car after a shunt. He had been racing hard. Under those circumstances, if he wasn't highly emotional I would have suspected that he was a cyborg.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Scott

Re: Views on the Monza GP
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2013, 03:06:39 PM »
Emotional, sure.  Anger at himself for not sticking a good pass and assuming his teammate would just pull over and wave him on by, but anger at Webber for holding his racing line and then twirling his finger?  No, that's not just emotion coming through, it's arrogance.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Jericoke

Re: Views on the Monza GP
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2013, 03:06:55 PM »
I'll cut Vettel some slack on the incident in Turkey. He was climbing out of the car after a shunt. He had been racing hard. Under those circumstances, if he wasn't highly emotional I would have suspected that he was a cyborg.

Frank Williams' perfect driver  ;)

As a racing fan, what happens on the track is held separate from what happens off track.  Vettel has been agressive to a fault, and a bad teammate, but he's a good racer, and I don't believe he's ever cheated, either by getting away with something by favouritism, or even bending the spirit of the rules to increduality.  As long as he's doing that, I can't stay mad at him.

If I want to watch the soap opera aspect of sports, I'll stick to wrestling.  (In wrestling, the 'evil' wreslters appreciate boos for what they are... passion in the fans)

Offline Irisado

Re: Views on the Monza GP
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2013, 11:34:12 PM »
Okay....thanks Dare...being in Canada I would never recognize them as they would never have a picture of either of them in the Canadian or American media.

What were you doing during the 1995 Canadian Grand Prix :D?  Jean Alesi won that race, there was a track invasion with delirious fans because he won driving Ferrari number 27 (Gilles Villeneuve's number), and there was joyous celebration all around.

He was much better than a journeyman, he just made some very poor career choices (such as signing for Ferrari instead of Williams for 1991).

Back to the race itself, and, for once, I enjoyed quite a bit of it.  Take Vettel out, and it would have been a really exciting race for the lead.  Had his car broken down like it used to, we would have had Alonso, Webber, and Massa all battling closely for first place, and it would have been exciting.

Thankfully, we had some midfield fun from Hamilton and Raikkonen which kept me entertained, and there were very few easy DRS passes this time around.  While, therefore, there was less overtaking, I didn't mind, because it felt less artificial when it did happen.

I really enjoyed Hulkenberg's performance too.  Sauber really needed that result, as it pushes them clear of Willians, whose indifferent season continues.  How he found that performance in the Sauber, considering its relative pace all season, I just don't know.

A very poor day for Force India though.  They really have suffered since the tyres were changed, and I can't see them holding off McLaren in their championship battle.

I was hoping for some rain, as I felt that this was the only way that Vettel would lose, but sadly we didn't get any.  The absence of rain, and the stupidly high finishing rate, were the only two disappointments for me.  Everything else made me feel happier, particularly the fact that they still have gravel traps at Monza.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 01:43:13 PM by Irisado »
Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Views on the Monza GP
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2013, 11:49:30 PM »
According to his post race interview, Hulkenberg was equally surprised by the speed of the Sauber. Kaltenborn said they are just now beginning to understand "what the car wants".
Lonny

 


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