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Author Topic: F1 Cost Cap ditched  (Read 5037 times)

Online Scott

F1 Cost Cap ditched
« on: April 08, 2014, 12:05:42 PM »
They don't want to, so we aren't doing it - Todt

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/26923436

What I found interesting, that I didn't know before was:

'Under F1's new governance structure, the six teams in the strategy group - Ferrari, Red Bull, Mercedes, McLaren, Williams and Lotus - have one vote each, while Ecclestone and Todt have six each. Votes pass by a simple majority.'

Bernie and the FIA each have 6 votes, which is twice as many as the 6 teams.  Seems a bit lopsided.  I would say Bernie and the FIA can have 3 each.  And why can't the rest of the teams have a vote?  They pay their entry fees (to F1), pay their fair share of expenses, yet get no votes, and a minuscule share of the money.  Oh boy, do I ever want to join THAT club  :fool: :fool: :fool: :fool:


The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Jericoke

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2014, 03:08:02 PM »
They don't want to, so we aren't doing it - Todt

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/26923436

What I found interesting, that I didn't know before was:

'Under F1's new governance structure, the six teams in the strategy group - Ferrari, Red Bull, Mercedes, McLaren, Williams and Lotus - have one vote each, while Ecclestone and Todt have six each. Votes pass by a simple majority.'

Bernie and the FIA each have 6 votes, which is twice as many as the 6 teams.  Seems a bit lopsided.  I would say Bernie and the FIA can have 3 each.  And why can't the rest of the teams have a vote?  They pay their entry fees (to F1), pay their fair share of expenses, yet get no votes, and a minuscule share of the money.  Oh boy, do I ever want to join THAT club  :fool: :fool: :fool: :fool:

Those are the extant teams with championships.  I don't know if that's how they were chosen, but that's what separates them from the excluded teams.

Kinda weird to think that F1 only has 6 teams that have won a championship. 

Anyhow, back to the points at hand.  I agree with scrapping the cap.  In a multinational sport where sponsors want to guarantee their big bucks buy a competitive advantage, it just wasn't feasible.

As for the FIA and FOM having a bigger say than any one team:  they're the ones enforcing the rules and writing the contracts.  They're supposed to have the power.  I agree that the teams should have more power, but since they can't agree, we do need some adults in the room.  Alas, the FIA and FOM are as close as we can get.

Offline J.Clark

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2014, 03:40:49 PM »
Additionally, since the cap, the rules have changed a few times in ways which left me scratching my head.  Spend less and develop a totally new system.  We went from V-10s to V-8s under this rule and now to V-6s, not to mention KERS, each of which caused significant increases in particular areas of the team's budgets.
Life is short - live each day to the fullest.

Offline John S

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2014, 05:00:32 PM »
Additionally, since the cap, the rules have changed a few times in ways which left me scratching my head.  Spend less and develop a totally new system.  We went from V-10s to V-8s under this rule and now to V-6s, not to mention KERS, each of which caused significant increases in particular areas of the team's budgets.

Supposedly the change to new powertrains is to help exploit the technology for road use, an unfortunate side effect is higher costs to the customer teams at present. The theory is with increased transfer of the tech to the engine builders road car businesses more of the engine budget can be written off in R&D depts, costs should stabilise and probably even reduce to customer teams.

Trouble is some theories never work out, however most of projected aims of changing the engine regs appear to be working - for most anyway. ;)  A new engine supplier Honda has been tempted back, who knows maybe others will follow and more of the grid will get cheaper or even free power plants. 

I'm not convinced a cost cap is enforceable anyway, to much wriggle room with so much money sloshing about at the top end of the sport. Team's lawyers and accountants would simply add massive extra costs for the regulators by running rings round them with clever challenges and creative accounting, if such a cap is ever enacted.  :(     



 
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Irisado

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2014, 09:38:46 PM »
They could enforce a cost cap if there was a will to do it.  As Todt said himself, it's the fact that they (the big teams) don't want it that's the only thing preventing it.  The fact that the FIA let them get away with that, while at the same time allowing daft things like double points into the rules, portrays the organisation in a very dim light in my view.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Jericoke

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2014, 03:30:42 PM »
They could enforce a cost cap if there was a will to do it.  As Todt said himself, it's the fact that they (the big teams) don't want it that's the only thing preventing it.  The fact that the FIA let them get away with that, while at the same time allowing daft things like double points into the rules, portrays the organisation in a very dim light in my view.

F1 is an international sport, governed by the laws of Britain, EU, Switzerland, France, Germany, Italy, not to mention the countries where the races are held.

Any team that wants to avoid an enforced cap can simply point to the set of laws they wish in any jurisdiction.  For example, the USA has antitrust laws.  It is illegal for different companies to collude to limit the salaries of their employees.  The only way they get around that with sports teams is by collectively bargaining with unionized players.  This only limits the costs of on field talent though.  Many 'rich' teams spend their money on extensive executive and scouting staffs, and fancy training facilities.  Even though the caps supposedly level the playing field, it's still the same teams with the same advantages.

If Ferrari wanted to spend above the cap, they would be able to ask the Italian government to make it illegal to limit the size of an SpA organized for the purpose of motorsport, and poof, Ferrari (and STR) would have an uncapped budget.

Offline Irisado

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2014, 08:01:39 PM »
I'm no lawyer, so I cannot comment on that.

The wording Todt used, however, tells me that is possible to achieve a cost cap, and it's not happening because of a lack of will, not for legal reasons.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Jericoke

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2014, 08:10:05 PM »
I'm no lawyer, so I cannot comment on that.

The wording Todt used, however, tells me that is possible to achieve a cost cap, and it's not happening because of a lack of will, not for legal reasons.

Right, at the end of the day any cap would have to be voluntary, as it's simply unenforceable from a legal standpoint.  Since the 'Big Teams' can't trust that the other guy isn't cheating, they're not even going to pretend to follow the cap.

I don't like the FIA mandating 'standard' parts, but it's a decent work around for keeping costs limited.

Offline Irisado

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2014, 12:19:31 AM »
I still don't see why the FIA cannot audit budgets and publish them for all to see.  Why do lawyers even need to be involved?
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Jericoke

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2014, 12:27:53 AM »
I still don't see why the FIA cannot audit budgets and publish them for all to see.  Why do lawyers even need to be involved?

Because we're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars.  I'd like to think no one would cheat, but they do. 

That's why lawyers have to be involved.   :'(

Offline Irisado

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2014, 12:29:54 AM »
The FIA does its own policing of such matters, so I still don't see why we need a whole raft of lawyers.  The FIA's word has to be final, and that's that.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Jericoke

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2014, 12:35:27 AM »
The FIA does its own policing of such matters, so I still don't see why we need a whole raft of lawyers.  The FIA's word has to be final, and that's that.

The FIA needs Ferrari more than Ferrari needs the FIA.

They will always quibble over details, but the fact is, whatever Ferrari needs to stay in F1 will happen.  If Ferrari doesn't want to open their books to a public organisation, they're not opening their books to a public organisation.

vintly

  • Guest
Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2014, 06:41:19 PM »
The FIA needs Ferrari more than Ferrari needs the FIA.

They will always quibble over details, but the fact is, whatever Ferrari needs to stay in F1 will happen.

What if another seven years go by without a Ferrari champ. Would they still hold their ace?

Offline John S

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2014, 08:35:03 PM »
The FIA needs Ferrari more than Ferrari needs the FIA.

They will always quibble over details, but the fact is, whatever Ferrari needs to stay in F1 will happen.

What if another seven years go by without a Ferrari champ. Would they still hold their ace?

Oh yes,  ;) and they will be using it more and more if all that time goes by without a championship.  :D

Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Irisado

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2014, 12:02:53 AM »
The FIA needs Ferrari more than Ferrari needs the FIA.

They will always quibble over details, but the fact is, whatever Ferrari needs to stay in F1 will happen.  If Ferrari doesn't want to open their books to a public organisation, they're not opening their books to a public organisation.

Maybe you are right.  I find it all very depressing.  It should be possible to cap budgets.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

 


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