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Author Topic: F1 Cost Cap ditched  (Read 5007 times)

Offline Jericoke

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2014, 07:11:14 PM »
The FIA needs Ferrari more than Ferrari needs the FIA.

They will always quibble over details, but the fact is, whatever Ferrari needs to stay in F1 will happen.  If Ferrari doesn't want to open their books to a public organisation, they're not opening their books to a public organisation.

Maybe you are right.  I find it all very depressing.  It should be possible to cap budgets.

I find it more depressing that there is serious discussion of budget caps.  F1 engineering should be fabulously extravagant, not afraid to try something new and exciting every weekend.  F1 should have 13 teams with unlimited budgets, 26 multi millionaire drivers all paid to bring the fight to the very last corner every 2 weeks.

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2014, 05:19:53 AM »
The FIA needs Ferrari more than Ferrari needs the FIA.

They will always quibble over details, but the fact is, whatever Ferrari needs to stay in F1 will happen.  If Ferrari doesn't want to open their books to a public organisation, they're not opening their books to a public organisation.

Maybe you are right.  I find it all very depressing.  It should be possible to cap budgets.

I find it more depressing that there is serious discussion of budget caps.  F1 engineering should be fabulously extravagant, not afraid to try something new and exciting every weekend.  F1 should have 13 teams with unlimited budgets, 26 multi millionaire drivers all paid to bring the fight to the very last corner every 2 weeks.

You need the desperation of survival to induce the genius inside, and create new intelligent designs and solution. With unlimited budget teams will be more attracted to bring attention with non-racing related issues and matters. I always believed F1 should be survival with innovation & intelligence. Bigger teams should be forced to think like small teams to keep coming up with innovative ideas of racing, rather than hiring all the goodies and taking away the bigger share. I also believe the restriction should be made to ensure an even field for innovative technologies to prosper, not making the biggest spender the winner.
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Offline Scott

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2014, 08:10:35 AM »

I find it more depressing that there is serious discussion of budget caps.  F1 engineering should be fabulously extravagant, not afraid to try something new and exciting every weekend.  F1 should have 13 teams with unlimited budgets, 26 multi millionaire drivers all paid to bring the fight to the very last corner every 2 weeks.

 |-( |-( I thought you were always (until now?) in support of the regs to keep costs down, Jeri.  But I like the new you  ;) I say go and spend what they like, where they like...let the back markers remain back markers until they can scare up the sponsors or backers to bring them to the front. 
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Jericoke

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2014, 03:52:46 PM »

I find it more depressing that there is serious discussion of budget caps.  F1 engineering should be fabulously extravagant, not afraid to try something new and exciting every weekend.  F1 should have 13 teams with unlimited budgets, 26 multi millionaire drivers all paid to bring the fight to the very last corner every 2 weeks.

 |-( |-( I thought you were always (until now?) in support of the regs to keep costs down, Jeri.  But I like the new you  ;) I say go and spend what they like, where they like...let the back markers remain back markers until they can scare up the sponsors or backers to bring them to the front.

Means to an end.  I'm in favor of 'cost controls' because F1 needs more than 2 healthy teams.  I think that sport is capable of so much more stability, once the struggling teams are allowed to get their legs under them.  If Caterham or Marussia get a few podiums, I don't think they'll be struggling, but it's hard to get podiums while they struggle.  There needs to be a way to help them.  Since no one is throwing them money (which I understand), we need to stop the powerful teams from widening the gap.  Otherwise Caterham, Marussia (and the sponsors) will realize there's no point and just quit. 

I've said that F1 needs Ferrari, well, F1 needs 10 teams too.  If Caterham and Marussia quit (that is to say, do the logical thing), F1 is screwed.  The sport needs to find a way to help them.  Once they're stronger, the whole sport benefits, and then hopefully they can open the formula up again.

Offline Scott

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2014, 04:57:41 PM »
Well, see that's where we agree again.  I believe F1 needs 10 healthy teams, and there is such an easy way to do that.  Split all the TV money evenly to each team.  Distribute trackside revenue according to WCC finishing order.  Teams with strong sponsorship will receive more money to play with, the others less so, but not a tiny fraction, like today.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Irisado

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2014, 07:03:29 PM »
Jeri, having 13 teams with unlimited finances and resources is even more improbable than implementing a cost cap.  If fixed budgets isn't the solution to Formula 1's financial problems, and to a more even playing field, then what is?  The current system of homogenisation doesn't work at all, and produces overly reliable cars, customer cars didn't work, and if there's going to be no budget cap to take away that advantage from the tops teams, then what is the solution?
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Jericoke

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2014, 08:33:22 PM »
Jeri, having 13 teams with unlimited finances and resources is even more improbable than implementing a cost cap.  If fixed budgets isn't the solution to Formula 1's financial problems, and to a more even playing field, then what is?  The current system of homogenisation doesn't work at all, and produces overly reliable cars, customer cars didn't work, and if there's going to be no budget cap to take away that advantage from the tops teams, then what is the solution?

I didn't say the cap isn't a good idea, just not enforceable.  If one team believes another team is cheating (and getting away with it) they'll cheat too.  It's the only way to win.

There are two solutions:
1)  Use the National Football League model.  In this American sport each team is run independantly, but certain monies earned are split evenly, and all teams are considered to have an equal voice in how the league is run.  Teams in New York and Texas might might make the most money, but their owners realize that having strong teams from across the country brings in fans, and makes their own slice of the pie bigger. 

2)  Assemble Formula One under a single umbrella where each team is a separate department (legally speaking) of FOM (or whatever).  Then the company can determine the budgets of each department, and voila, caps are easily, and legally, enforced.

3)  Lets be open about the goals of F1.  F1 teams aren't going to make money.  Ferrari is in it to sell road cars.  Red Bull is in it to sell drinks.  Sorry Frank and Peter, there's no room for racers anymore.  Gene Haas gets it.  Maybe there are others who can be convinced that F1 is just like Google:  it's about selling stuff.

Option 2 seems very unlikely, as I doubt Ferrari or McLaren are willing to turn over their hard earned companies.

Option 1 would work.  It would still be a myriad of international laws to deal with (the NFL's advantage is they operate out of a single nation, though they do have to deal with local/state laws).  The issue is convincing Ferrari that Caterham is an 'equal'

I don't like Option 3.  I'd hate to see the spirit that built the sport completely squelched, especially given that deep pocketted corporations seem to be quite okay with giving up and quitting at the drop of a hat.  All the same, if Google, Disney and Sony could be convinced to run teams, that would benefit the sport.  (I don't think Kimi or Vettel would be on the short list for Disney drivers though...)

Online John S

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2014, 09:54:31 AM »

The trouble with your solutions Jeri is that the teams don't own F1 and never have. The FIA is the rights owner and has contracted the rights to FOM for at least the next 90 years.

When you own such lucrative rights you are not going to give up the huge earning potential without a real good reason, and a few teams being in financial trouble - or even going under- is not a good enough one to the money men.

Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Cam

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2014, 12:56:43 PM »
Minnows on the brink are a core element of the F1 myth.
I am a lover of what is, not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality - Byron Katie

Offline Jericoke

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2014, 03:05:44 PM »

The trouble with your solutions Jeri is that the teams don't own F1 and never have. The FIA is the rights owner and has contracted the rights to FOM for at least the next 90 years.

When you own such lucrative rights you are not going to give up the huge earning potential without a real good reason, and a few teams being in financial trouble - or even going under- is not a good enough one to the money men.

Well, I did propose that FOM take over ownership of all teams.  I think they could handle that.

I also proposed that FOM work closer with the teams.  They might get a smaller piece of the pie, but the pie itself will be larger.  I'd rather have 10% of 5 billion than 20% of 2 billion.

I also proposed that FOM would do well to convince owners that Formula One is about losing money in the name of advertising.  If it works for Red Bull, why wouldn't it work for any other of hundreds of equally sized companies?

FOM or FIA don't have to give up anything

Offline Jericoke

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2014, 03:12:14 PM »
Minnows on the brink are a core element of the F1 myth.

It was different when anyone could stroll up with a chassis, engine and pile of tires and give it a shot.  For every 'minnow' that failed, there were three more scraping together nickels for their own shot.

Caterham and Marussia aren't 'plucky minnows'.  They're teams that are struggling to become genuine F1 competitors.  They don't have the option of trying something crazy.  They can't bring in some breakthrough new engine design.  They can't afford to build a car with inventive aerodynamics that might be declared illegal. 

Basically, all they can do is hire the best people who aren't already working for 'established' teams.  Without the budgets of bigger teams, they can't hope to hire away the big names who might make a difference.

Offline Irisado

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2014, 02:24:35 PM »
I prefer option 4.  Pay the teams more money, get rid of the prohibitive deposit rule for new teams, and force the major manufacturers to supply engines to their customer teams at an even further discounted rate.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Online cosworth151

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2014, 12:27:16 PM »
Most of all, get rid of the FIA. They bring nothing of value to the table and harm the sport greatly. Just look at the nosedive sports car racing has taken since the FIA-WEC took over. They're the ones who thought that the mini-motored kitten kars would be a good idea. Dump them while there is still something left.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Online John S

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2014, 08:42:09 PM »
Most of all, get rid of the FIA.

You can't, they are F1, and a lot of other racing series besides.

They only sold the commercial rights, under licence, to Bernie as they were forced to separate the regulatory and commercial functions by European Union laws. However no law exists - and probably never will - to make them give up their ultimate ownership of F1.

 
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Jericoke

Re: F1 Cost Cap ditched
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2014, 01:16:11 AM »
Most of all, get rid of the FIA.

You can't, they are F1, and a lot of other racing series besides.

They only sold the commercial rights, under licence, to Bernie as they were forced to separate the regulatory and commercial functions by European Union laws. However no law exists - and probably never will - to make them give up their ultimate ownership of F1.

I know we've been over this before, but it's a North American thing.  We don't understand why any sport requires legally distinct administrative and commercial entities to function.  The NFL, Baseball, NBA, NHL, IndyCar, NASCAR all operate as their own entities.  They are all run by one 'Commissioner' or 'President' who is responsible for the league. 

The FIA and FOM each have their own interests, which pulls the sport in two directions.  That doesn't benefit the sport to try and fulfill two visions, since more often than not they'll fail at one, or compromise and fail at both.

The trademark 'F1' isn't as valuable as people think.  I'm quite happy with GP Wizard.  If Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes agree to form SuperHappyRaceCars, their fans will follow.

 


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