The Great Noise Debate

[Scott]

Ok, been there, done that.  I've now attended races pre and post V6 turbo's.

When I first went to a GP race (Monza) about a decade ago, I was thrilled by the sound and still have memories of walking through the actual park that is called Monza and heard FP1 start in the distance.  Music to my ears.  As I got near the track, I also remember it was certainly time to install my earplugs.  I loved the pounding of the sound on my chest as the cars screamed past and shifted.  Ian will also remember the massive part of the experience that the sound played while in Monza.  Sometimes you had to say something 3-4 times screaming at one another to be heard and understood (probably our accents didn't help) at any time that the cars were out on the track.  Even if a car wasn't going past in front of us, if they were anywhere on the track, it was quite loud.  And Monza is a massive track from one end to the other.

This weekend was quite a contrast.  I don't think you would be able to hear an F1 car from one end of the track to the other at Catalunya.  We could hear them come down the main straight because we had a small window between the grandstands and a hill.  Then we could hear them wind around turns 2-6 behind us, but not too loud, just knew they were there.  Then they would burst around the knoll of the hill we were sitting on and you could hear an engine full of whirs and whistles that seemed to be short shifting the whole time, at least in comparison to the FP2's who wound the engines out 3/4 of the way up the hill before they shifted while the F1 cars would shift 2 or 3 times while they were in view.  After they left our view and turn 9, things were quiet again.  Ok, you could hear them in the distance, but you really could carry on normal conversations.

Only when there were 3-4 cars going past at once did you have to strain to hear what somebody may have commented about this or that.  I wouldn't have ever considered putting in earplugs for the F1 race, but almost dug through my bag to look for them during the GP2 race.

Before going to the race, Vintly had said he was on the fence and was waiting to hear what the cars sounded like, and I was firmly against the new sound.  During the race I believe Vintly said he was disappointed with the new sound, and to be honest, even though I miss the old sound, it was a new experience to actually have some conversation during the race other than on chat.  I know...I'm getting old. 

To sum it up for me, I can stand the new sound, but still wish they would turn up the rpm into the 18-20k zone.

By the way, the GP2 cars are about twice as loud. 

It was great fun to meet Vintly and his pals (one of whom lives in Barcelona) for the weekend.  My old fart body meant I generally headed off to bed before them, but had some great times.  I think they are heading back to the UK later today, so maybe he'll weigh in on this one in a day or so.

[Scott]

Joe Saward puts in his post Spain opinion.  Too bad the first 3/4 of his article is about how little he thinks of Spain, especially their internet (Gee Joe, you musta paid too much, because my humble little hotel had a decent internet speed, even in he elevator!).  Then he goes on about the wonderful-ness of France.  I have the total opposite of his opinion.  Love Spain, hate France.  Spain, people are friendly, polite, unusually clean (both how they put every scrap of garbage in the GARBAGE - of all places, and how even the guy pushing a shopping cart around picking up scrap metal to sell had his hair combed and clean clothes on) and even helpful (the hotel staff where I stayed were exceptionally friendly, but then again, I was also friendly to them, maybe Joe could learn from that.  He sounds like he's just a chronic complainer, and nobody working at a hotel wants to hear someone like him whine all the time).  Point is, I don't think Joe gave a very fair impression of Spain, a country still in brutal financial throes, but remarkably in great shape by my eye.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2014/05/13/thoughts-about-noise-in-f1/

Anyhow, back to the debate at hand - I understand his point, but don't think he should dismiss the debate quite so quickly.  The turbo's of the 1980 era cars revved much higher than the 2014 cars, and have a very raw noise as shown in this video:   

The most interesting sound during the 2014 Spanish F1 race was the Safety Car, and sadly we didn't even get to hear that during the race.

[cosworth151]

The reason we didn't hear complaints about the lack of sound during the 1st Turbo Dark Age was the lack of the internet. All we heard was the fawning of paid shills. You know, like Joe Saward. The fans had no voice.

[Scott]

Mercedes to try out a new 'Trumpet' exhaust to see if the sound can be improved...

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/27369884

[Scott]

Now just to try to get a bit of traction on my as of yet barely noticed post that I put some effort into, I thought I would bring this picture to your attention of just some Spanish guy we saw at the track sleeping while the cars were going past in the background.  Yes, those are F1 cars.

Not sure he would have as sound a sleep with the old F1 cars, but hey, I don't know the guy, so maybe he would 

And no, for the record, that is NOT Vintly. 

[cosworth151]

Here's a little mash-up of machines from Maranello. V12, V10, V8 and early turbo V6. Just about everything but the current kitten cars.

Crank it up! 

[Ian]

Good one Cos, at least the 12's, 10's and 8's sound like F1 cars rather than the muted monstrosities we have now.     

[John S]

Now just to try to get a bit of traction on my as of yet barely noticed post that I put some effort into, I thought I would bring this picture to your attention of just some Spanish guy we saw at the track sleeping while the cars were going past in the background.  Yes, those are F1 cars.

Not sure he would have as sound a sleep with the old F1 cars, but hey, I don't know the guy, so maybe he would 

On your first point I enjoyed reading your original post and enjoyed your report. However I just can't get excited one way or the other about the noise debate, the racing is still racing noise or no.

Your second point and picture is likely due to over indulgence in vino or beer, when inebriated it's amazing how much adversity one can put up with, I'm guessing he would have zzz'd through most things short of a hurricane. 

 

[Andy B]

The reason for the lower revs and short shifting is the torque band on the new engines, they develop huge grunt at lower revs so do not need to hit the high revs or anywhere near the limiter. There's also the fuel saving by short shifting so if they use more revs they use more fuel.
On the noise I'm a bit like some of the others and have not made a decision maybe once I have been to a race it will send me one way or the other. If you want a comparison take a look at Formula E not only is it quiet there's a problem! Half way through the race the drivers pit and change cars as they cannot complete a race with one car and to wait several hours to refuel may not work.  The first test is in 45 days at Donnington Park and although you have to register its free entry. Someone needs to go and report back here me thinks? 
Have a listen here. http://www.fiaformulae.com/multimedia/video

[Scott]

If they want relevance to street cars, Formula E should be developing a quick change battery.  Pop the old one out, and the charged one in.  Automate it for an added bonus.  If they can do that in a reasonable pit stop time, and can sell it to the manufacturer's to build battery stations across the lands, then electrics may have a chance...otherwise, I don't see them ever taking market share over gas engine cars.

[lkjohnson1950]

I agree with John, not really a big deal. And we're flogging a dead horse here, the rules have changed and they are not going back. Mercedes and Renault say they are happy with the new power units. Time to move on.

[Jericoke]

I agree with John, not really a big deal. And we're flogging a dead horse here, the rules have changed and they are not going back. Mercedes and Renault say they are happy with the new power units. Time to move on.

It's not flogging a dead horse.  If enough people believe it is a problem, the FIA will listen.  They do understand that while safetey and fairness are important aspects of auto racing, it's still a show.  If no one watches, then the rest doesn't matter.

[lkjohnson1950]

In order to drastically increase the noise, they will have to radically alter the rules and at this point I doubt the engine suppliers would go along with that. The engines are quiet because they are small displacement, turbocharged, and have the exhaust manifolds covered by heat exchangers for the ERS system. You won't increase the sound much without changing one or more of those, and that's not going to happen.

[Scott]

They won't make any drastic changes for this year, but if they want to improve the sound for next year, the time to do it is now.

[cosworth151]

If they want cars that are "relevant" to road cars, they should add doors, roofs, fenders and a few more seats. F1 is supposed to be about awe inspiring spectacle. Mewing little kitten cars only inspire pity.

As for Renault & Merc, they will leave F1 some day anyway. They aren't F1 companies. Why let them destroy the sport now?