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Author Topic: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars  (Read 5388 times)

Offline Dare

Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« on: July 02, 2014, 01:16:40 PM »
Just think with this no Jordon,no Minardi,no Hesketh,
we get the drift Bernis.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/9368626/Bernie-Wants-Eight-Teams-Three-Cars


"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline J.Clark

Re: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2014, 01:40:53 PM »
 >:D Bernie!

I don't think it would be better for Formula 1.
I don't think it would be good for the teams.
I don't think it would be good for the drivers.
I don't think the majority of the fans would like it either - I would not, that is for certain.
Life is short - live each day to the fullest.

Offline cosworth151

Re: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2014, 02:18:26 PM »
If not for Jordan, there would be no Force India. Williams & McLaren were once small teams, too.

Another well thought out idea you've got there, Bernie.  |-(
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline monty

Re: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2014, 02:55:14 PM »
You have to remember that Bernie believes that everyone wants to have total control, like him. Therefore, he probably assumes that with just a few teams and legal team orders the result can be determined before the race even starts.  :fool:

Offline Jericoke

Re: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2014, 03:15:08 PM »
I'm not opposed to the idea per se.

The number of people willing to invest in F1 on a level that can compete with Ferrari and McLaren is very small and notoriously fickle.  Since pulling Ferrari and McLaren down to a level where Caterham can compete with them just isn't going to happen, having fewer teams, with more drivers, should put on a better spectacle.

I'd prefer a system where teams are allowed 1/2/3 car teams as their budget allows. 

On one hand, I appreciate the history of the sport growing small teams into current mega corporations.  On the other hand, all sports are like.  You can't have a dozen guys in matching shirts show up and joing the English Premier League.  They need to be prepared to compete at the top level.  Formula One is at a point where they need to make sure every team is prepared to compete at the top level.

Offline Scott

Re: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2014, 04:29:48 PM »
Formula One is at a point where they need to make sure every team is prepared to compete at the top level.

Then they need to make sure the rules allow everyone a chance to win, and more importantly, to make money.  Start by pooling all the FOM money (TV, track ads and race fees) and divide it equally between the teams at the end of the year (less a fixed amount for CVC to manage their debt and a little bit of profit).  The winning teams will instead benefit by being able to sell stickers on their cars for more. 

Then, map out a regulation change schedule that is financially realistic and is projected at least 5yrs ahead so the teams can properly budget and plan for the next steps.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Irisado

Re: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2014, 04:33:25 PM »
Scott, I like your idea :).

Another fatuous suggestion from Ecclestone.  He has raised similarly ill conceived ideas about three car teams before, and they have never gone anywhere.  This idea too will fall at the first hurdle.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Jericoke

Re: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2014, 08:26:27 PM »
Formula One is at a point where they need to make sure every team is prepared to compete at the top level.

Then they need to make sure the rules allow everyone a chance to win, and more importantly, to make money.  Start by pooling all the FOM money (TV, track ads and race fees) and divide it equally between the teams at the end of the year (less a fixed amount for CVC to manage their debt and a little bit of profit).  The winning teams will instead benefit by being able to sell stickers on their cars for more. 

Then, map out a regulation change schedule that is financially realistic and is projected at least 5yrs ahead so the teams can properly budget and plan for the next steps.

That is the unmentioned plank in the 'other sports' platform isn't it?  Do major European leagues engage in revenue sharing or is that an American thing?

But still, I don't want someone showing up in F1 so they can have a slice of the F1 pie.  Fernedes wasn't prepared to race with the big boys, but he wasn't in it for the money either.

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2014, 01:23:19 AM »
Fernandes says he came in after being assured budgets would be capped. While it still didn't make good financial sense, with the cap he could afford it. Without the cap it's just too much. Can't blame him really.
Lonny

Offline John S

Re: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2014, 11:11:42 AM »

What's with all this levelling talk.  :o  Formula 1 has always been best car wins with the better, or designated, driver in the car having a run at the WDC. There are so so many racing series out there that have artificially enforced equality but F1 ain't one of them.  :nono:

What has kept F1 special and at the top is the 'only the best will do' mentality. Now whether that's the best designers, best ideas, best tech, best engines, best drivers or the best funding surely it's all the same.

Whilst I have great sympathy for the mid and rear end teams and think it should be possible to come up with a sensible cost cap - I'm doubtful that it will ever be achieved though.

I also agree that the spoils could be divided more equally from the FOM's teams pot. However I am not at all in favour of giving all teams an equal part of F1 income, that way lies madness - teams can turn up with dogs of cars (like some of them do now) and still be assured of their place on the grid next year as they can easily afford the cost of keeping the team going.

Taking Premier league Football in the UK, as an example of revenues generated directly from the sport being shared more evenly amongst the teams, we find that the big threat to underperforming teams is relegation to a lower league at the end of the season.

F1 has no such scheme to replace under achievers, so until something is in place to keep all the teams on their toes IMHO dividing the spoils equally seems a blind alley, if we wish to maintain a really competitive environment.   

 
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Scott

Re: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2014, 11:30:37 AM »
I also agree that the spoils could be divided more equally from the FOM's teams pot. However I am not at all in favour of giving all teams an equal part of F1 income, that way lies madness - teams can turn up with dogs of cars (like some of them do now) and still be assured of their place on the grid next year as they can easily afford the cost of keeping the team going.
I'm not sure that's fair John.  Of course a team running on a budget a fraction of the front runners will not be able to produce a car near their time, but heck, building a car from scratch and then lining up only 3sec back from one of those front runners is quite an achievement.  I don't see anyone sitting in lawn chairs around the garage waiting for the race to start.  I haven't heard of any of the back markers actually making a profit except for perhaps Williams who have enough non-F1 interests to keep the company in the black, and after this year won't be called a back marker for a while.  If they show up with dogs, then it is a reflection of the pitiful state that F1 finds itself in, no fault of the team who brings the dog.

Taking Premier league Football in the UK, as an example of revenues generated directly from the sport being shared more evenly amongst the teams, we find that the big threat to underperforming teams is relegation to a lower league at the end of the season.

F1 has no such scheme to replace under achievers, so until something is in place to keep all the teams on their toes IMHO dividing the spoils equally seems a blind alley, if we wish to maintain a really competitive environment.   

Perhaps that is really the answer then.  Create an environment where any team who wants to be in F1, must first create a team in GP2, and then earn their way forward by winning a WCC or if the winning team doesn't have the ability to move up, then look to the next, and so on. 

And, at the same time, penalize the last place team in F1 by demoting them to GP2 at the end of each season.  That would solve your hunger problem at the back of the field if you really think there is one.  The added benefit would be allowing previous year F1 cars to run GP2 if they want.

It would certainly sort out the playboys wanting an F1 team for fun...those guys could just show up and invest in a current team, which many would be quite open to.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 02:56:57 PM by scott »
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Irisado

Re: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2014, 02:17:02 PM »
I also agree that the spoils could be divided more equally from the FOM's teams pot. However I am not at all in favour of giving all teams an equal part of F1 income, that way lies madness - teams can turn up with dogs of cars (like some of them do now) and still be assured of their place on the grid next year as they can easily afford the cost of keeping the team going.

When was the last time there was a genuinely awful car on the grid?  There are none this this year.  There haven't been for many years.  To find such cars you have to go all the way back to the early 1990s, when you had some really poor quality teams on the grid with cars which had no business in Formula 1 (Life and Andrea Moda spring to mind).

The current era isn't comparable.  What is a bad car now would have been good enough for mid grid, or even top ten back then, so I think that we need to have sense of perspective about this.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Jericoke

Re: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2014, 02:36:15 PM »
I also agree that the spoils could be divided more equally from the FOM's teams pot. However I am not at all in favour of giving all teams an equal part of F1 income, that way lies madness - teams can turn up with dogs of cars (like some of them do now) and still be assured of their place on the grid next year as they can easily afford the cost of keeping the team going.

When was the last time there was a genuinely awful car on the grid?  There are none this this year.  There haven't been for many years.  To find such cars you have to go all the way back to the early 1990s, when you had some really poor quality teams on the grid with cars which had no business in Formula 1 (Life and Andrea Moda spring to mind).

The current era isn't comparable.  What is a bad car now would have been good enough for mid grid, or even top ten back then, so I think that we need to have sense of perspective about this.

That's the point though:  currently in F1 is you want money, you have to race for it.

Suggesting that you get paid for just showing up will mean some people MIGHT do the bare minimum and take their share of the F1 pie.  If you don't think this is true, then watch a NASCAR race.  Teams get paid per lap completed.  Some cars will show up, and race enough laps to turn a profit and then pull off before they have to buy another set of tires or tank of fuel.

Offline cosworth151

Re: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2014, 02:51:32 PM »
They even have a name for teams like that: Start & Park.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Irisado

Re: Bernie:8 teams with 3 cars
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2014, 05:24:38 PM »
That's the point though:  currently in F1 is you want money, you have to race for it.

Suggesting that you get paid for just showing up will mean some people MIGHT do the bare minimum and take their share of the F1 pie.  If you don't think this is true, then watch a NASCAR race.  Teams get paid per lap completed.  Some cars will show up, and race enough laps to turn a profit and then pull off before they have to buy another set of tires or tank of fuel.

The difference is that in Formula 1 costs are still so completely out of control that desperate measures need to be taken.  All the long life regulation of engines and gearboxes hasn't worked, and has made the show more boring, a budget cap is, apparently, unworkable, so what else remains other than to pay the teams a lot more money?

I'm not saying that they should be paid just for turning up, but they all need a much larger slice of the cake than they currently get.  When you look at the standard of modern Formula 1, you cannot honestly say that any of the teams currently on the grid doesn't deserve to be there, so why then the reluctance to give them more money?  Ecclestone is a serious roadblock to sensible reform, but the FIA doesn't exactly help either.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

 


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