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Author Topic: Silverstone Santander British Grand Prix  (Read 4256 times)

Offline Scott

Re: Silverstone Santander British Grand Prix
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2014, 05:04:23 PM »
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  • I didn't realize there is a marked concrete entry point.  If that's the case, then good job Silverstone for allowing a safe re-entry if the driver chooses to take it...too bad it isn't part of the rules.

    I don't think you can say Kimi re-entered the track at anywhere near 45degrees, maybe 15, and he didn't have to do a mirror check, just a glance to his left would tell him if it was 'safe' to join the track, and yes there was a gap in the cars that would have allowed him to join at that speed.  He's not the first to still have his foot in it on the runoff areas, and can you really blame him, considering it was the first lap and he would have had massive places to make up if he just coasted through and joined after the field went through?

    Look, we all know there are inherent dangers when you leave the track limits, but the main reason I brought this up was that from how I saw it, the place Kimi chose to re-enter the track was logical, and at most tracks with paved runoffs, the logical places to rejoin don't cause your back end to fly into the air.  And as Jeri said, that drainage would have likely unsettled the car at any speed.

    So...like J. Clark said, since there have been so many controversies over these massive paved runoff areas, it is time the FIA came up with a rule.  A second line 4-5m off the track is a brilliant idea.  All 4 wheels over that and you are obligated to rejoin at a designated place, and in a manner that does not pose danger to the other drivers, be it a speed limit (though a bit hard to enforce as you aren't going to install radars all over the place), or maybe (shudder) leave it up to the stewards.

    I still don't think it was Kimi's fault  :P :P :P

    Oh and I think you could say Cosworth is also a former race driver with quite a bit of experience and he seems to have come down on the other side of your argument.
    The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

    Offline lkjohnson1950

    Re: Silverstone Santander British Grand Prix
    « Reply #31 on: July 09, 2014, 01:29:20 AM »
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  • There are decent arguments on both sides, but a couple of things stand out to me. Given the weather around Silverstone, the drainage ditch is probably a necessity. A proper recce of the track would have shown Kimi he couldn't go there. Many drivers walk or cycle the track even before practice starts. Further I don't think any driver should be cutting across the grass, grass is not part of the racing surface. I've done some autocross but never actually raced a car I could sit in. I know from thousands of hours of RC car competition that the Red Mist is a real thing and Kimi's only thought was to get back in the race as fast as possible. Given that, perhaps there should be a barrier there to keep drivers on the paved runoff. A thorny problem.
    Lonny

    Offline Irisado

    Re: Silverstone Santander British Grand Prix
    « Reply #32 on: July 10, 2014, 10:55:40 PM »
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  • The simple answer to stop drivers keeping their foot in when they go completely off track to stop them from veering back onto it and full speed, and then potentially losing it over a bump, is to put the gravel traps back.  That accident was completely Raikkonen's fault.  He should have lifted off and rejoined the track in a more circumspect manner.  He thought that he'd get away with it because there was no gravel, he caught a bump and paid the price.

    It's the same problem with all these silly regulations about track limits.  Put gravel traps back at Copse and the final corner, and drivers won't run wide, because they'd be putting wheels into the gravel and losing time.  Problem solved.  It's really very straightforward.  The FIA is just blind.

    The Eddie Jordan and Niki Lauda interview was awful.  Eddie was too tabloidl, and Niki Lauda was just completely wrong.  If a race ever warranted being stopped it was that one.  Broken guardrail, debris all over the track, and no laps completed.  Restart.  They'd have wasted half the race behind the safety car otherwise, and the rules stipulate that the barrier must be repaired.  Charlie Whiting got that decision right.

    After that mess was cleared up, we were treated to a pretty good race.  I too enjoyed watching the battle between all the cars behind the Mercedes, Bottas was superb, Button did well, and Bianchi drove a great first stint too.  The battle of the race though was Alonso versus Vettel.  What a great fight, my only disappoint is that Alonso's Ferrari was too slow to hold off the Red Bull.  Alonso did nothing wrong in that battle, Vettel was just moaning.  He likes pole, leading all the laps, and setting fastest lap.  He's never been a fan of wheel to wheel racing.  Well, tough luck.  He can't have the best car to help him out all the time, and I'm sure Alonso made it extra difficult for Vettel, because he doesn't like him, but at no point did he overstep the mark.

    Other incidents of note included Chilton's lucky escape.  He was very lucky.  No wonder he was a bit shocked, and Gutierrez.  That was the worst race weekend I've seen from him.  His crash in qualifying was fairly amateurish, but his collision with Maldonado (oh the irony after what happened in Bahrain, and the fact that Maldonado is normally the one crashing into others) was really poor driving.  He's clearly overdriving the car, and he needs to knuckle down and stop making silly mistakes.
    Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

    Offline F1fanaticBD

    Re: Silverstone Santander British Grand Prix
    « Reply #33 on: July 11, 2014, 07:09:19 AM »
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  • The race in Silverstone with clouds looming in the horizon with quite a bit unexpected qualifying sure makes up a recipe for great race, and did just that. There was 6 retirements so should make Irisado happy, battle between Alonso and Vettel should make those happy who likes close racing, two guys starting from 17th and 19th finished the race in 2nd & 6th respectively while the latter have to serve a 5 second penalty because he overshoot a white-line by a foot, which denotes there was plenty of overtaking action through out the field, and an Englishman winning in the end in his home soil, resulting a huge point make up ensuring spicing up the championship, which will make people look forward to races to come happily. It seems this race made everyone happy except Massa's fans as well as Kimi's. While the Massa lot accept it ad being in the wrong place in the wrong time, the Kimi's guys are vehemently defending why the construction of the race track was not made to ensure safe full speed rejoining of the driver while racing. But I do have a question for stewards why did they not  give a 10 place grid penalty to Kimi for imposing threat to other drivers for pedal to the metal driving in the grass. It not a race track, its grass and you are not suppose to drive it  like a race-track, specially when its a fast straight. This not a film set where you would be to drive along the race track in the grass and nothing will happen. I agree with Irisado that if that pavement was filled gravel, Kimi's pace would have reduced significantly and would avoided the accident, but they have made the run-off area with wonderful concrete, Kimi was certain he would be able to join the race track without loosing much speed and places.

    @Ian I was suppose to send uou a PM which I could manage due to some difficulties, so my apologies, I will get back to you as soon as I can.
    Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

    Offline Scott

    Re: Silverstone Santander British Grand Prix
    « Reply #34 on: July 11, 2014, 09:19:35 AM »
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  • the Kimi's guys are vehemently defending why the construction of the race track was not made to ensure safe full speed rejoining of the driver while racing. But I do have a question for stewards why did they not  give a 10 place grid penalty to Kimi for imposing threat to other drivers for pedal to the metal driving in the grass. It not a race track, its grass and you are not suppose to drive it  like a race-track, specially when its a fast straight. This not a film set where you would be to drive along the race track in the grass and nothing will happen. I agree with Irisado that if that pavement was filled gravel, Kimi's pace would have reduced significantly and would avoided the accident, but they have made the run-off area with wonderful concrete, Kimi was certain he would be able to join the race track without loosing much speed and places.

    As a 'Kimi guy', I have to defend him until I die.  He wasn't pedal to the metal through the grass - it was almost all asphalt where he had it planted, in fact I bet if we could see the telemetry, he most certainly lifted when he got to the little patch of grass between the asphalt runoff area and the track, but just didn't see that dangerous bump there.

    I prefer asphalt to gravel for safety reasons in the runoff areas, however I think there should be some sort of penalty when you take the runoff, especially at high speed.  Maybe simply put kerbs the entire length of the runoff area, so a driver KNOWS there is going to be a big bump to rejoin the track.
    The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

    Offline Jericoke

    Re: Silverstone Santander British Grand Prix
    « Reply #35 on: July 11, 2014, 03:11:59 PM »
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  • the Kimi's guys are vehemently defending why the construction of the race track was not made to ensure safe full speed rejoining of the driver while racing. But I do have a question for stewards why did they not  give a 10 place grid penalty to Kimi for imposing threat to other drivers for pedal to the metal driving in the grass. It not a race track, its grass and you are not suppose to drive it  like a race-track, specially when its a fast straight. This not a film set where you would be to drive along the race track in the grass and nothing will happen. I agree with Irisado that if that pavement was filled gravel, Kimi's pace would have reduced significantly and would avoided the accident, but they have made the run-off area with wonderful concrete, Kimi was certain he would be able to join the race track without loosing much speed and places.

    As a 'Kimi guy', I have to defend him until I die.  He wasn't pedal to the metal through the grass - it was almost all asphalt where he had it planted, in fact I bet if we could see the telemetry, he most certainly lifted when he got to the little patch of grass between the asphalt runoff area and the track, but just didn't see that dangerous bump there.

    I prefer asphalt to gravel for safety reasons in the runoff areas, however I think there should be some sort of penalty when you take the runoff, especially at high speed.  Maybe simply put kerbs the entire length of the runoff area, so a driver KNOWS there is going to be a big bump to rejoin the track.

    I'm not a Kimi guy, (or a guy at all).  I personally feel that any driver doing what Kimi did would have made the right decision.  We can't expect a driver to quit simply because they made one mistake.  F1 would be terribly lame if drivers didn't take chances. 

    We're just asserting that if Kimi had known his path included a hazzard, he'd have made a different decision.  Anyone asserting he intentionally lost control of his car is absurd.  Without that bump, he would have reentered the race safely and fairly.  With the bump, we discover that no matter how hard they work on safety (and we know the FIA does take safety seriously), there's always something that's over looked. 

    I'm not picking on Silverstone:  I'm sure every track has undiscovered issues that I hope remain undiscovered during high speed driving.

    Offline Ian

    Re: Silverstone Santander British Grand Prix
    « Reply #36 on: July 11, 2014, 06:43:13 PM »
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  • No probs BD.
    An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

    Offline F1fanaticBD

    Re: Silverstone Santander British Grand Prix
    « Reply #37 on: July 11, 2014, 11:09:46 PM »
  • Publish
  • First to clarify, I am not an anti-Kimi guy (How can one be if he or she loves racing  :P ) neither I am implying that Kimi lost control on purpose ( What purpose would that be  :DntKnw:). My point as Alonso had to suffer for slight misjudgement, Kimi should be given some sort of penalty so that in future drivers are less adventurous to find a bump, that has not been discovered in Silverstone for many decades of F1 racing. I am certain Kimi intended no harm, I am also certain that he would have taken different course had he known the consequences. but his decision did put other driver's life at danger as well as ended the race of a driver, which could have been prevented had he taken a different approach, hence the appeal for a penalty.
    Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

    Offline John S

    Re: Silverstone Santander British Grand Prix
    « Reply #38 on: July 14, 2014, 10:10:22 AM »
  • Publish
  • First to clarify, I am not an anti-Kimi guy (How can one be if he or she loves racing  :P ) neither I am implying that Kimi lost control on purpose ( What purpose would that be  :DntKnw:). My point as Alonso had to suffer for slight misjudgement, Kimi should be given some sort of penalty so that in future drivers are less adventurous to find a bump, that has not been discovered in Silverstone for many decades of F1 racing. I am certain Kimi intended no harm, I am also certain that he would have taken different course had he known the consequences. but his decision did put other driver's life at danger as well as ended the race of a driver, which could have been prevented had he taken a different approach, hence the appeal for a penalty.

    Can't argue with that BD, Kimi caused an avoidable accident in my book so why no grid penalty for the next race?   :confused:

    It's a drivers responsibility to return to the track safely, going high speed grass cutting anywhere is unlikely to aid a safe return to a track - with or without drainage channels - whether it's the first or last racing lap.  :P

    « Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 01:07:50 PM by John S »
    Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

    Offline monty

    • Triple World Champion
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    Re: Silverstone Santander British Grand Prix
    « Reply #39 on: July 14, 2014, 01:00:54 PM »
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  • Quote
    that dangerous bump there
    :fool: Arrgh! It wasn't a 'dangerous bump' it was grass and a gulley. A piece of grass and a gulley that have been there for a long, long time. They were there during the track walks, they were there during Free Practice, they were there during Qualifying, they were there during all the support races. My point is they were there!  ;)
    The rules say that if you leave the track you are allowed to rejoin if safe to do so. It wasn't safe to ignore the concrete entry point but instead join at racing speed over a piece of grass and a gulley (that had always been there). As I have already said, we know why Kimi did it, he clearly did not intend to cause an accident but it was a reckless thing to do and if one of the rookies had done it everyone (even Scott) would have rightly condemned them for it.
    No more comments from me - my blood pressure can't stand it  :D

    Offline Irisado

    Re: Silverstone Santander British Grand Prix
    « Reply #40 on: July 14, 2014, 04:10:18 PM »
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  • Agreed, there is no dangerous bump.

    I repeat that if there were a gravel trap there, he would have had to have lifted off the throttle to some extent and rejoined more carefully, because you cannot drive flat out through a gravel trap without wrecking your car.

    The drivers take more liberties because they know that they can.  Want them to stop charging on and off the track with their cars, put the gravel traps back, then they cannot pull manoeuvres like that.
    Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

    Offline monty

    • Triple World Champion
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    Re: Silverstone Santander British Grand Prix
    « Reply #41 on: July 24, 2014, 02:11:03 PM »
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  •   :P
    Following Kimi Raikkonen's heavy crash at the British GP, all the drivers have been spoken to about how they return to the track.

    Raikkonen came in for some criticism when the Ferrari driver went off at Wellington Straight only to return to the track at pace and while others were racing by.

    The Finn subsequently hit a bump and crashed out of the grand prix.

    The FIA opted not to penalise him, believing he had done what any other driver would do.

    The drivers, though, have subsequently been spoken to by race director Charlie Whiting about the manner in which they returned to the action.

    He told Autosport: "There is no policy change, the standard policy is written in the rules, any driver having left the track may rejoin but must do so safely and without gaining any advantage.

    "It was my view that Kimi did not rejoin very safely and should have taken more care.

    "All the drivers were reminded that when rejoining across grass they must take care and cannot expect it to be manicured like a football pitch. It simply isn't feasible."

    Offline Irisado

    Re: Silverstone Santander British Grand Prix
    « Reply #42 on: July 24, 2014, 07:34:11 PM »
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  • I like that approach.  'It's already written in the rules, so I'm reminding the drivers to stick to the rules'.  A very sensible decision from Charlie.
    Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente