Bernie the mouth is at it again

[John S]

Hold on a moment here

Red Bull is a 'privateer' team.  They're not owned by some megacorp, they're owned by a rich guy (who named them for his megacorp).

The concensus is that F1 needs privateers more than it needs manufacturers, so we need Red Bull more than we need Mercedes

Red Bull are no privateer team, they're a marketing initiative just like all the other sport and stunts that Dieter backs. When F1 doesn't suit Red Bull anymore they will ditch it just as quick as the car manufacturers do.

The real privateer teams don't keep complaining about the engines they just get on and do the best with them - or they change to another. F1 has always been cyclical, what goes up must come down - sometimes with a real bump. 

IMHO Red Bull are a victim of their own success by sticking so closely with Renault. They wanted a sweetheart deal, they got one, so now live with it in the fallow years. That's what real privateer's have to do. 

[cosworth151]

OK, Dietrich, how about this. We'll let you swap engine deals with McLaren. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to be rid of the Honda lumps.

[Jericoke]

Hold on a moment here

Red Bull is a 'privateer' team.  They're not owned by some megacorp, they're owned by a rich guy (who named them for his megacorp).

The concensus is that F1 needs privateers more than it needs manufacturers, so we need Red Bull more than we need Mercedes

Red Bull are no privateer team, they're a marketing initiative just like all the other sport and stunts that Dieter backs. When F1 doesn't suit Red Bull anymore they will ditch it just as quick as the car manufacturers do.

The real privateer teams don't keep complaining about the engines they just get on and do the best with them - or they change to another. F1 has always been cyclical, what goes up must come down - sometimes with a real bump. 

IMHO Red Bull are a victim of their own success by sticking so closely with Renault. They wanted a sweetheart deal, they got one, so now live with it in the fallow years. That's what real privateer's have to do.

Just to clarify:

Manufacturers
Ferrari
Mercedes
McLaren

Privateers
Sauber
Williams

Publicity Stunt
Red Bull
Toro Rosso
Force India
Manor
Haas

Albatross
Lotus

Is that about right?  There's certainly wiggle room to move Williams into a manufacterer, and I'd concede Manor as a privateer. 

[Irisado]

I prefer this categorisation:

Manufacturers & Marketing Brands

Ferrari
McLaren
Mercedes
Red Bull
Toro Rosso

Unclear

Force India
Lotus

Independents

Manor
Sauber
Williams

Unknown

Haas

[Alianora La Canta]

I would go for the following

Paid spectacular amounts just to be there by FOM and promised a golden handshake if FOM's income falls below a certain amount:

Mercedes
Ferrari
Red Bull

Participation wage but no golden handshake

McLaren
Williams

Golden handshake but no participation wage

Toro Rosso

Reliant on own resources and prize money

Lotus
Force India

Reliant on own resources as it has no prize money

Sauber
Haas (eventually)

Reliant on prize money as it has no resources

Manor