What's wrong with F1 in a nutshell

[Scott]

The power train penalties are simply crazy.  As Jeri said, Mclaren has likely lost far more money than rules like that could ever save them.

And with regards to the newbies being confused (though I used the term casual fans, which aren't necessarily newbies), they aren't confused about how a team gets massive grid penalties for broken bits, they are more likely confused as to why on earth there is a rule like that to begin with.

[Andy B]

I know and agree but the fact that they are giving so many grid places that simply don't exist is both ridiculous and confusing for new fans. Why not just make the maximum ' back of the grid'

"Back of the grid sounds like a plan! Have you told Bernie?

Tried ringing him but he's not answering his mobile, will tell him over coffee later
 

But he's a milk drinker!

[Alianora La Canta]

It's just a demonstration of the laws of unintended consequences.

These rules are in place to save the teams money so that we have competitive races.

Of course, the rules have ensured that races are UNcompetitve.  A team that can afford to replace engines is a joke amongst both serious fans and casual fans, and has hemmoragged sponsors as a result.  That is to say, this rule has COST McLaren money, not saved them an penny.

Which teams are benefiting under the current engine rules?  Ferrari and Mercedes.  Wow.  Glad they've got the money to remain in the sport.  Red Bull and STR are hamstrung by underdeveloped Renaults.  Manor and Sauber are running engines purposely inferior to real Ferrari engines.  No benefit for them:  what investor is interested in a car designed to lose? 

So that leaves Force India, Williams and Lotus.  I suppose all this nonsense is benefiting them.

As those 2 teams currently supply 7 teams and look to be headed for 9 pretty soon, F1 doesn't have much choice but to make the rules benefit them. Losing 9 teams wouldn't exactly help the sport. It isn't one single decision that got F1 into this mess, it's the whole sorry framework.

[Steve A.]

They may well pull out, at least Mercedes, can't really see Ferrari leaving. But there will always be someone to supply engines. Honda, Renault, there would be more. Ok both aforementioned engines are below standard but can be improved. No team is bigger than the sport. Mercedes will pull out when they are not miles ahead of everyone anyway.

[Jericoke]

They may well pull out, at least Mercedes, can't really see Ferrari leaving. But there will always be someone to supply engines. Honda, Renault, there would be more. Ok both aforementioned engines are below standard but can be improved. No team is bigger than the sport. Mercedes will pull out when they are not miles ahead of everyone anyway.

I'd like to think that no team is bigger than the sport, but if Mercedes left the sport, there would be a massive hole to fill, and no one to fill it.  Ferrari won't sell competitive engines to other teams.  Renault and Honda are hamstrung by development rules.  Every other engine maker is watching Renault and Honda be the butt of jokes on international telecasts:  who's going to sign up for that?

Interest in Formula One continues to wane.  No race in France, no race in Germany, very real possibility of losing the Italian race.  If Ferrari leaves Formula One, would fans stay to watch Mercedes beat up on a bunch of teams no one knows?  I think that if Ferrari became part of an alternative 'top' series, fans would follow.

[Steve A.]

If Mercedes did pull out, it would be at the end of a season or possibly longer, rules as we all know can be changed when it suits. I Doubt Monza will go, it is possible but as Scott said it's probably an exercise to squeeze more money.
A rival series, if it's better than F1 the most fans would follow it and things continue.

[Alianora La Canta]

Honda pulled out at the start of the 2008 off-season and it caused turmoil for its one team, scrambling to find a new supplier. Putting 4 teams in that situation cannot end well for all of them. I highly doubt Ferrari could even tool up to equip 9 teams that quickly, let alone with equal parity of engines. Mercedes would hardly be in a better position to step up if Ferrari, for some inexplicable reason, decided to walk out of F1.

It would mean either teams were lost or GP2/World Series 3.5 engines would have to be allowed (LMP1 engines already are but nobody is interested due to the extra expense and dubious media gains).

I can see Monza going, but only if Bernie can replace it or the organisers upset him on the wrong day.

A rival series would pick up most of F1's fans if it got sufficient cross-planet free-to-air coverage, even if it was not quite as good as F1. Despite a couple of good races, I sense things are getting to that point.

[Monty]

if it got sufficient cross-planet free-to-air coverage, even if it was not quite as good as F1

aren't we all fickle. We are all complaining about how bad F1 is but Ali's comment (which is exactly the kind of thing I would say) suggests that nothing is as good as the 'awful' F1.
I watch other single-seater series and none of them seem quite as good as the bad F1 and I can't say why. They do have overtaking, there is wheel bashing, there is very little one team dominance - yet it doesn't do it for me!
British Touring Car is now my 'do not miss' motor sport. Why? Perhaps it is the personalities. There are drivers I love and drivers I loathe, just like F1. This is not the case in the other single seat series where the drivers are all clones of each other - fresh faced, sponsor savvy, annoyingly talented but bland.
That's my philosophical statement for the day 

[Alianora La Canta]

I don't think there's a single-seater series that is even trying to rival F1 at the moment (preferring to aim at the many gaps in the market which are otherwise uncontested), which is why none of them are challenging it right now. After all, the only thing easier than stealing market share from a weak rival is stealing market share from a rival that doesn't even exist.

If a single-seater series tried to rival F1, I suspect it would be another matter. With vultures circling, that point may come.

[Jericoke]

I don't think there's a single-seater series that is even trying to rival F1 at the moment (preferring to aim at the many gaps in the market which are otherwise uncontested), which is why none of them are challenging it right now. After all, the only thing easier than stealing market share from a weak rival is stealing market share from a rival that doesn't even exist.

If a single-seater series tried to rival F1, I suspect it would be another matter. With vultures circling, that point may come.

Indeed, opposing F1 would be virtually impossible without name recognition.  However, Ferrari brings that name recognition.  If Ferrari were so motivated, they could become the core of a 10 race season on short notice.

I don't know how long F1 without Ferrari would last against a series with Ferrari and races in France, Italy, England and Germany.

I don't WISH for this to happen, but it might provide a shakeup that would help the sport.

[John S]

All this talk of a rival series leaves me puzzled.  Weren't new contracts until 2020 signed between FOM & the big teams - especially Ferrari - in exchange for a bigger share of the money and more say via the Strategy group?

I'm pretty sure it would cost any of the big teams jumping ship a hell of a lot of dosh to break the contract. The only exception I can see is Red Bull who may be able to escape such big money if there is no engine supplier willing to take them on, which is why Bernie is frantically trying to get Merc  to agree an engine supply.

 

[lkjohnson1950]

I think we've seen that any contract can be broken. Especially if Ferrari takes FOM to an Italian court.

[Alianora La Canta]

All this talk of a rival series leaves me puzzled.  Weren't new contracts until 2020 signed between FOM & the big teams - especially Ferrari - in exchange for a bigger share of the money and more say via the Strategy group?

I'm pretty sure it would cost any of the big teams jumping ship a hell of a lot of dosh to break the contract. The only exception I can see is Red Bull who may be able to escape such big money if there is no engine supplier willing to take them on, which is why Bernie is frantically trying to get Merc  to agree an engine supply.

Ferrari's big enough to have one foot in both camps while everything is sorted out, and there wouldn't need to be any carryover between the other teams. The non-Ferrari F1 teams could simply wait until F1 collapsed or they were contractually able to transfer.

[Steve A.]

More penalties, where will it end.

http://wtf1.co.uk/italian-gp-2015-starting-grid/

[Scott]

haha...record starting position for Will Stevens.  Thanks FIA.