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Author Topic: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition  (Read 7329 times)

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2015, 06:19:05 PM »
Sadly that is also my impression. Completely changed my outlook on the race, and not for the better :(
Percussus resurgio
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http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Scott

Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2015, 07:25:37 PM »
Yeah, I guess it has to go through the political stewards as well as the safety stewards. 

Too bad, I really enjoyed the scramble at the end.  Merc was banking on a 25sec. time penalty so they were telling Lewis to pick up the pace even though there was nobody behind him for 20+ seconds.  Hilarious.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Online Dare

Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2015, 07:32:20 PM »
Mercedes was counting on a 25 second penalty but dq
was what the rules called for.

After the race seems no one at Mercedes had any idea
what was going .

Much as I hate to see someone get a win over a rules infraction
Mercedes knew what they were doing and Vettel was robbed
Mark Twain once opined, "it's easier to con someone than to convince them they've been conned."

Offline John S

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Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2015, 09:04:59 PM »
Seems like rules are meant to be ignored as well as broken.

Seems like nothing in F1 has rules set in stone.....from the lousey
stewards to ignoring rule infractions. :DntKnw:

Whilst I agree it looks bad to escape penalty the rules need to be written better, not cobbled together in a hurry in response to a whingeing driver's outburst that caused so much negative publicity for the tyre supplier.

I think the Stewards called this one right, take a look
at the actual wording of Stewards adjudication post Monza:-

Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Scott

Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2015, 09:17:52 PM »
Still seems pretty grey to me, why were the tire blankets unplugged so prematurely? 

Whatever...I think if they make a rule with a number in it and that number is exceeded or not met, then there should be some kind of penalty.  It seemed even clear that Merc figured it would be a 25sec penalty.  Why would they think that if the rule was for DQ?  Probably because a 25sec penalty was also an option for punishment and they figured at worst they would get that.

As corrupt or twisted the rule making and enforcing is in F1, they could have also just DQ'd Lewis and tighten up the championship a bit, let a Ferrari win at Monza and the world would be a better place.  :tease: :tease:  Oh well...'missed opportunity' is what I'm sure Bernie is saying to Jean right now in some smokey Italian restaurant.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Steve A.

Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2015, 09:45:18 PM »
At least I got my wish for an engine failure, just in the wrong car.

Offline John S

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Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2015, 09:47:06 PM »

As corrupt or twisted the rule making and enforcing is in F1, they could have also just DQ'd Lewis and tighten up the championship a bit, let a Ferrari win at Monza and the world would be a better place.  :tease: :tease:  Oh well...'missed opportunity' is what I'm sure Bernie is saying to Jean right now in some smokey Italian restaurant.

Nice thought Scott, however Bernie has so much trouble with Renault still undecided that he can't afford to upset Merc.

Toto's retaliation could see Red Bull without a competitive power unit for next year so they chuck in the towel, or worse Dieter Zetsche, Daimler-Benz chairman who was present at Monza, could pull the plug entirely on their F1 programme.
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Monty

Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2015, 11:04:37 AM »
I think the FIA have made themselves look even more stupid than ever. They do not have a policy of checking tyre pressures on the grid (tyre pressures are monitored by Pirelli in the garage). However, on this occasion they send out an FIA technician who only checks the first 4 cars and not under a controlled procedure. The rule is that the tyre pressures should be checked at the same time as the tyre temperatures with the tyre blankets connected and at full temperature. On this occasion they do not bother to check if the tyre blankets were connected. It should have been obvious (would have been obvious to a Pirelli engineer)  that the temperatures were much lower than you would expect if the tyre blankets were connected but they still report the inevitable lower pressures as an infringement. What a joke  :fool:
Nurse - bring me my tablets!
The whole debacle did make me realise what a good driver Hamilton is. He gets a confusing and worrying message to drive faster and immediately puts in the two fastest laps of the race while on worn tyres. Wow!

Offline Scott

Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2015, 03:23:36 PM »
Oh seriously?  They checked them on the grid before the parade lap?   :confused: :confused:
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline cosworth151

Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2015, 04:15:50 PM »
F1's reputation is in tatters. Changing the finishing order well after the race is over is a major part of that. Giving a win to Ferrari long after the race was over because of 3/10 of 1 pound per square inch on one tire would just about finish it off.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline J.Clark

Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2015, 11:23:15 AM »
Did I miss something?
Are they taking Hamilton's win away?
Life is short - live each day to the fullest.

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2015, 11:26:01 AM »
No, but it was briefly a possibility.
Lonny

Offline John S

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Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2015, 01:46:06 PM »
I think it should be Joe Bauer who gets the penalty, it appears he's the man who sanctioned the late on the grid pressure checks after tyre warmers were being removed -  Pirelli had already passed all the contestants pressures as correct at the permitted maximum tyre blanket temps before the wheels were fitted to the cars.   :swoon:  Ergo no case to answer in the Stewards room.  ::)

This is how Adam Cooper on Motorsport.com explains it:-

When Bauer did his extra checks, it was at a stage when Pirelli had already accepted the Mercedes tyres as "legal", while knowing that, with the blankets disconnected, the temperature and pressure could only drop.

So in effect it would seem that Bauer was wasting his time by measuring pressures in the last few minutes before the start, with the blankets disconnected.

Indeed, Pirelli confirmed to the Stewards that Mercedes had complied with its own requirements, vis a vis its blankets plugged-in measurements.

Once this became apparent the Stewards decided that, while there was an anomaly in the pressures recorded by the FIA, there was also a grey area in the procedures and timing of the measurements.

The Stewards also accepted that once the cars started moving, the tyres heated up again, and the pressures went up. Indeed, data from the cars showed that throughout the race the Mercedes tyres stayed well above the minimum requirement, and the FIA was satisfied by that.
 
Extracts from a longer post courtesy Adam Cooper, master.motorsport.com, Mon 7th Sept.
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline J.Clark

Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2015, 03:02:49 PM »
I would have been happier had Hamilton not won, but he did earn it.  It would be very disappointing to have that taken away.

I, as I am sure Lewis too, was wondering why they needed him to run the wheels off of the car with the lead he had over Vettel.  There was discussion among Hobbs & Company about what the possible reasons were, but the tire pressure was not part of that.
Life is short - live each day to the fullest.

Offline Monty

Re: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 2015 Edition
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2015, 09:08:04 AM »
On Sky, Damon Hill and Martin Brundle had guessed that Mercedes must be trying to build up enough of a lead to counter a possible time penalty but I doubt anyone had thought about tyres.
In a normal commercial enterprise Mercedes could now be pursuing the FIA for compensation. They were wrongly forced to put additional stresses on a race engine. All a bit of a joke when you think that they have so many rules allegedly in the interest of reducing costs!

 


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