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Author Topic: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!  (Read 5171 times)

Offline John S

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2016, 07:22:42 PM »
With my ex-racing drivers perspective (I can just about remember that far back!) as soon as I saw Rosberg's harvesting light come on I thought this is Hamilton's chance. When Rosberg forced Hamilton onto the grass I thought that Rosberg must have assumed Hamilton was going left or that he hadn't seen him - a clumsy racing incident.
Then I saw the interview with Rosberg - "I was in the wrong engine mode, I saw him coming and closed the door". To me that was almost an admission of attempted murder! When another driver is coming past you at a speed more than 20kph faster than you - you do not 'close the door'! The rules say you have to leave room of at least one car's width. It would be bad to force a competitor onto the grass but your own team mate! Unforgiveable.

Totally agree with you Monty.

Another reason I think this is unforgivable from Rosberg is that by taking the extreme right hand side as he did he's completely off the racing line. Carrying correct speed he would have trouble making the approaching corner properly without moving back across the track - which would be illegal of course as he had already moved.

I reckon the Stewards are just reluctant to get involved in the team rivalry at Merc for whatever reason. In fact usually they tend to ignore any shunts involving teammates in the first couple of laps of a GP.

They intervened later in the race when K Mag biffed Palmer in the sister Renault, so perhaps it's only the big names/top teams that they avoid passing judgement on.
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline J.Clark

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2016, 08:01:05 PM »
I have to challenge one point you seem stuck on Monty.
You say Hamilton was along side of Rosberg.
As close as he ever gets to being "along side" is at 1:22 in the video I posted - left front to right rear wheels - at which point, Hamilton is already right wheels in the grass.  That means that Rosberg may have known he was moving up there, but never saw him, and consequently saw no need to give room.
Life is short - live each day to the fullest.

Offline Scott

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2016, 09:02:13 PM »
With my ex-racing drivers perspective (I can just about remember that far back!) as soon as I saw Rosberg's harvesting light come on I thought this is Hamilton's chance. When Rosberg forced Hamilton onto the grass I thought that Rosberg must have assumed Hamilton was going left or that he hadn't seen him - a clumsy racing incident.
Then I saw the interview with Rosberg - "I was in the wrong engine mode, I saw him coming and closed the door". To me that was almost an admission of attempted murder! When another driver is coming past you at a speed more than 20kph faster than you - you do not 'close the door'! The rules say you have to leave room of at least one car's width. It would be bad to force a competitor onto the grass but your own team mate! Unforgiveable.

Totally agree with you Monty.

Another reason I think this is unforgivable from Rosberg is that by taking the extreme right hand side as he did he's completely off the racing line. Carrying correct speed he would have trouble making the approaching corner properly without moving back across the track - which would be illegal of course as he had already moved.


Yeah, I'm jumping on this side of the fence as well.  I thought the leave a car width was actually just the proper thing to do period, rule or no rule.  Moving in front of a car is one thing, but considering the speed differential in this case, it was dangerous not to leave Hamilton an option.  Hamilton was trying to ride the line to keep at least two tires with traction, but couldn't quite thread the needle that was left. 

I'm not a fan of either driver, and hope they take each other out of every race left this season which will bring us exciting racing between RBR and Ferrari, but I get the feeling Rosberg has no intention of losing the championship this season and will do anything to win it, if that means sacrificing his own car to take out Hamilton, then so be it. 

I don't really see how the Merc management responded the way they did.  The incident when Nico "accidentally" cut Lewis rear tire sent them ballistic, yet in this case Toto sees no fault?  Wow...  I would have thought at the very least they would get a tongue licking like Dennis used to - race as much as you like as long as you don't take each other out.  As tensions rise, they might take a different tune.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2016, 10:25:38 PM »
Here's my last word, Lewis car is equipped with the best brakes money can buy. When he saw Nico move he could have slowed. Lots of drivers in similar situations have done so. But Lewis has always been super aggressive so he went for it, even though going on the grass is really dumb. He had as much ability to avoid a collision as Nico and he chose to go for the win just like Nico. I don't like either of them much but it seems a lot of people are always ready to give Lewis a pass and hang Nico out to dry.
Lonny

Offline Andy B

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2016, 12:10:11 AM »
Nico admitted he saw Lewis coming and made an aggressive move to close him off but that was too late Nico had made a mistake and was trying to recover the situation and that included pushing Lewis off the road. All manoeuvres should be without endangering other drivers Nico ignored that so is he getting desperate?
Lewis approaching at 170mph did not have time to wait to make a decision its all spur of the moment as to which side to go he chose right as at the time there was more room.
We've all heard the cry "There's not enough overtaking in F1" now when Lewis is doing just that people are saying he should not have are what they is he should have braked? Its racing and we want to see drivers race but it has to be fair I can recall Lewis chopping Nico but not putting him onto the grass causing an accident.
I know we all have different views but the majority of pundits are saying Nico should have left room in which case Nico was then at fault.

Has Nico been signed yet? Maybe if not he may not?
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline monty

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2016, 08:43:01 AM »
Possibly some of the differing views are slightly coloured by which driver is favoured by the correspondent. I am not a fan of either driver - I think they have both forgotten just how lucky they are to be driving what is currently the best car in the best team. That said, I hate poor sportsmanship especially when it endangers life. This is not the first time Rosberg has carried out a manoeuvre that was simply an attempt to force Hamilton out of the race/qualifying/pole position lap, etc. Yes I know Hamilton has made some very aggressive overtakes, but they were at least legitimate racing moves. My last words on this are:-
> Hamilton was already alongside Rosberg before Rosberg 'closed the door'. I still have the race recording and if I was clever enough I would put the various views showed by Sky here on the forum to prove the fact. As I am not clever, I will simply point attention to what all of the racing driver pundits have said "Hamilton was clearly alongside Rosberg before Rosberg moved".
> Rosberg was way off the racing line to make it difficult for Hamilton (fair enough) but when he saw Hamilton had found enough space on the right he deliberately forced him off the track - breaking the one car's width rule, plus it was stupid and dangerous
> Rosberg was a sitting duck, travelling over 20kph slower than Hamilton. He knew that Hamilton could pass him easily and he should have accepted it.
> Hamilton was travelling so much faster he had to pass (or crash in the back of Rosberg). He decided to pass on the right - the obvious side because he had every reason to believe that Rosberg would be going left (the correct racing line).
> Rosberg could easily have avoided the accident by simply keeping to the racing line
> Rosberg could have said "I screwed up, like an absolute amateur I had put the car in the wrong engine mode, I ended up going incredibly slowly and while trying to put the car into the correct mode I got distracted and didn't see Hamilton". However, he didn't try to put a more positive spin on his own stupidity. Instead he said "the car was in the wrong mode we will have to investigate this", (trying to make it sound like somehow it was someone else that was to blame), "I saw Hamilton so I closed the door". In other words, it was a deliberate act to force his own team mate onto the grass - an act which at those speeds could have had deadly consequences. In all conscience I could never defend such an act under any circumstances.

Offline monty

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2016, 08:54:04 AM »
This is the work of someone else but I thought it was brilliant!

Offline cosworth151

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2016, 12:09:25 PM »
I think it was Fangio who first said, "You can't win a race on the first lap, but you can certainly loose one." Toto (or Dr. Z) should make Nico write that on the chalk board 100 times.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Scott

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2016, 06:46:49 PM »
JYS has weighed in on the debate and throws the blame solidly at Hamilton, and even chided him on whipping his steering wheel out of the car in frustration.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-3593640/Lewis-Hamilton-disciplined-Mercedes-Nico-Rosberg-crash-says-Sir-Jackie-Stewart.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

There are not very many times I tend to disagree with anything Jackie has to say, but this is surely one of them.  In my eyes there were two errors made, and both by Nico.  1st of all, he messed up his race settings, which if he hadn't, Lewis would never have had a chance at that point, and no accident would have taken place.  The second mistake was judgemental in that he, for some reason, thought he could simply block Lewis after Nico took away Lewis's 1st position one turn earlier.  Simply by being a long time friend and competitor, he must have known Lewis wouldn't simply brake.

The post race interview of Nico below was cringe worthy to watch.  First he lies when he said he wasn't distracted when the in car camera has him clearly paying attention to his steering wheel while his car slows.  If that's not distracted from the job of racing, I'm not sure what is.  Then he says "WE" are trying to find out why his setting was wrong...why not just stand up and admit you blew the setting?  Throughout the interview he says he was gutted over and over again, yet barely mentions the effect the incident had on the team - only looking out for himself.  And finally, he behaves like a child caught in a lie when she asks him again about who's fault and the best he can come up with is that he will accept the steward's ruling.  Ah, it just made me sick to watch.



But as I said before, I hope these dirty tricks go on the whole season if it means we will have edge of your seat racing in more races between RBR and Ferrari.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 07:26:18 PM by Scott »
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Jericoke

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2016, 08:30:29 PM »
JYS has weighed in on the debate and throws the blame solidly at Hamilton, and even chided him on whipping his steering wheel out of the car in frustration.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-3593640/Lewis-Hamilton-disciplined-Mercedes-Nico-Rosberg-crash-says-Sir-Jackie-Stewart.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

There are not very many times I tend to disagree with anything Jackie has to say, but this is surely one of them.  In my eyes there were two errors made, and both by Nico.  1st of all, he messed up his race settings, which if he hadn't, Lewis would never have had a chance at that point, and no accident would have taken place.  The second mistake was judgemental in that he, for some reason, thought he could simply block Lewis after Nico took away Lewis's 1st position one turn earlier.  Simply by being a long time friend and competitor, he must have known Lewis wouldn't simply brake.

The post race interview of Nico below was cringe worthy to watch.  First he lies when he said he wasn't distracted when the in car camera has him clearly paying attention to his steering wheel while his car slows.  If that's not distracted from the job of racing, I'm not sure what is.  Then he says "WE" are trying to find out why his setting was wrong...why not just stand up and admit you blew the setting?  Throughout the interview he says he was gutted over and over again, yet barely mentions the effect the incident had on the team - only looking out for himself.  And finally, he behaves like a child caught in a lie when she asks him again about who's fault and the best he can come up with is that he will accept the steward's ruling.  Ah, it just made me sick to watch.



But as I said before, I hope these dirty tricks go on the whole season if it means we will have edge of your seat racing in more races between RBR and Ferrari.

I think given the difference in opinion both here and in the F1 commentator realm, that the Stewards got it right by not assigning blame.  It's a bit of a coward's way out, but if we can't agree, it seems reasonable that they can't agree either.

I'm convinced that Nico took the blame in the 'treehouse', and this interview is more or less him trying to cover for Lewis so he doesn't get a reprimand.  That's some solid team playing to look like an idiot on camera.  Lewis owes Nico big time for that.

Offline Dare

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2016, 12:51:54 AM »
Yea Jeri and Hamilton owed Dennis and Mclaren for all he has now and
we show how he showed his gratitude there didn't we.
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline Andy B

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2016, 10:03:18 AM »
Yea Jeri and Hamilton owed Dennis and Mclaren for all he has now and
we show how he showed his gratitude there didn't we.

Everyone said Lewis was wrong to leave McLaren but if he had stayed there he would not have the second and third world titles and I bet if Alonso was honest he regrets going back to them.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline monty

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2016, 10:36:59 AM »
Quote
JYS has weighed in on the debate and throws the blame solidly at Hamilton

I believe this comment was made almost immediately after the incident. Hopefully now JYS has seen all of the evidence he would change his opinions. Having said this, JYS has a history of attacking Hamilton and favouring Rosberg - the press has delighted in asking Hamilton about some of the wild accusations JYS has levelled at him. For some reason Jackie really doesn't seem to like Lewis.

Offline Jericoke

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2016, 03:31:59 PM »
Yea Jeri and Hamilton owed Dennis and Mclaren for all he has now and
we show how he showed his gratitude there didn't we.

I think that Hamilton repaid anything he owed Dennis.  An amazing rookie season, a WDC.  I never felt like Hamilton betrayed McLaren.  Disappointed, sure, but it's not like he broke a contract, or bad mouthed them after he left.

I'm sure when Lewis was 14 he never imagined he could ever rise higher than McLaren (except Ferrari, of course).  It's still a great story, would love to see more of that in F1.  The Red Bull driving programme is a meat grinder, and most other young drivers are getting their shot because of financial backing.

Offline Scott

Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2016, 03:45:04 PM »
No no Jeri.  There was more to it than that.  Lewis had a hand in the entire Dennis Whitmarsh falling out, and I believe he owes Ron Dennis far more than he contributed to Mclaren.  Sponsoring and supporting him for more than 5 years before he was ready to take on the Mclaren seat, plus Lewis had a little something to do with the Alonso departure, which cost the team a boatload of money at the end of the day, along with a tarnished reputation. 

In my opinion Lewis owes Mclaren his entire career.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

 


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