Brazil - 2016

[Ian]

Just looked at the weather in Sao Paulo, it's raining. 

[Ian]

Chucking it down there, Grosjean out before the start even, lost it on the way round to the grid, put it into the wall.

[Alianora La Canta]

I feel a somewhat complicated set of emotions from today:

- relief, because at multiple points I thought someone was going to get injured from the bizarre insistence on running the race in clear red-flag conditions. Raikkonen's accident in particular looked like it would result in an ambulance, and it was needless as even the commentators said the track was in worse state than when previously red-flagged (due to weather).

- happiness at Pirelli. Yes, drivers complained, but when the accidents were replayed, nearly all of them were due to hitting white lines (the remainder were because of the previous point). A contributing factor was the huge amount of spray the extreme wet tyres kicked up, interfering with people's views... ...something that happens due to the impressive amount of water those tyres clear. Yes, it's utterly incompatible with racing, which is a sporting and regulatory problem. Nonetheless, it is an engineering marvel.

- contentment that Brazil's resurfacing hasn't removed the rivulets, merely moved them.

- pride that Felipe Massa got such a beautiful "walk of honour" as he returned to the pit lane...

- ...and pity he did not get to finish his last home race at all, let alone well.

- disappointment that Manor didn't get to keep the 9-10 they had at one point (partly due to trying to run the race when it shouldn't have run; in a naturally-run race events would have ended early),

- happiness that Sauber are finally points-scorers,

- conflicted emotions: I like both Manor and Sauber. Why can't Bernie pay both of them the reward for 10th?!?

- embarrassment that, in the highest level of single-seater motorsport, half the field apparently hasn't learned to avoid painted lines in the rain. This used to be known information, relatively well-followed, throughout the entire F1 grid (and certainly would be to most professional racing drivers, even now). It left me questioning if standards have really risen in the last two decades, as so often told, or if we are merely led to believe they have done so through statistics and carefully crafted narratives.

- moderate disgust at Max Verstappen. Behind the Safety Cars, I thought he was drunk, so erratic was his driving. Kimi Raikkonen had to take evasive action to avoid hitting him. Max also nearly hit Sergio Pérez (who had such a robust response to this that I'm not sure how Sergio missed getting a penalty for it) and Sebastian Vettel (who was denied the option of braking due to a visible rivulet, and nearly went far enough off in avoidance to crash. All three of these could have resulted in a penalty if a steward was having a bad day, the Safety Car one probably should and the Vettel one is, from what I can see, incontrovertibly a penalty. Yet no penalties were issued.

- fury that the commentators treated the above as praiseworthy, let alone built it up as some sort of classic drive. The 1 minute of penalty that probably should have been applied to Max due to his 3 separate broken rules would have made him last, behind even Button (and I don't see anyone calling his day a classic!) To address the more common reactions from people who've moaned at my statement of Verstappen's conduct in Brazil:

- Reviewing the footage does not help Max's cause in the slightest.

- if Senna had done what Verstappen did, he would have been disqualified and possibly received a suspended ban sentence (though some of that might have been forgiven on the basis that Brazil was his home track and national bias was more of a factor in stewarding back then). This on the basis of how Japan 1989 (where he drove similarly) was handled.

- If Schumacher had behaved that way, he'd have been given a penalty too, albeit not on the scale Senna did. Still, he'd have been lucky had it merely been a substantial time penalty (and it would have been more had there been felt to be any championship benefits from doing so).

- Not only is Verstappen not driving like a champion/great/[insert superlative here], he isn't driving at the level of a F3 champion or similar. Felix Rosenquist, Antonio Giovanazzi and Charles Leclerc would have been embarrassed to have been caught driving like Max did today. Esteban Ocon was in the field and drove the race the F1 commentators claimed Max drove but didn't. OK, maybe Lance Stroll wouldn't have been embarrassed due to his lower consistency, but I still think Lance is a better driver than to shove one driver off-track and nearly hit two others in the same race - regardless of the provocation.

- This is F1, not kindergarten or nursery school.

- Rules matter for two reasons: following them separates a sport from a free-for-all, and, in this endeavour, they create the safety that allows it to occur at all.

[Monty]

Whenever Ali has something to say I generally agree with 99% of it and wish I could put it down 50% as well.
Putting my ex-racer hat on again I would disagree with the sentiment that those conditions were 'red flag' conditions.
Almost all other series would have raced flag to flag in those conditions. Even motorbikes would have raced in those conditions.
The problem came from the FIA being indecisive again. They should know that the only safe way of racing is while the Extreme Wet tyres are hot. A good set of wets would have been perfectly safe particularly on a car with lots of downforce. However, by making them do lap after lap behind the incredibly slow pace car, the tyres got cold, the compound got hard and they lost all grip. This is proven by the excellent racing towards the end of the race in even worse conditions than earlier.
I do completely agree about the drivers - they should know to avoid the lines and since most of them came up from karting how did they 'forget' that the fastest lap times will come from avoiding the normal racing line?
I also agree about Verstappen - yes he was quick but only because he was wild. He got away with it which shows skill but he was taking unnecessary risks with his life and the lives of others.

[Jericoke]

Whenever Ali has something to say I generally agree with 99% of it and wish I could put it down 50% as well.
Putting my ex-racer hat on again I would disagree with the sentiment that those conditions were 'red flag' conditions.
Almost all other series would have raced flag to flag in those conditions. Even motorbikes would have raced in those conditions.
The problem came from the FIA being indecisive again. They should know that the only safe way of racing is while the Extreme Wet tyres are hot. A good set of wets would have been perfectly safe particularly on a car with lots of downforce. However, by making them do lap after lap behind the incredibly slow pace car, the tyres got cold, the compound got hard and they lost all grip. This is proven by the excellent racing towards the end of the race in even worse conditions than earlier.
I do completely agree about the drivers - they should know to avoid the lines and since most of them came up from karting how did they 'forget' that the fastest lap times will come from avoiding the normal racing line?
I also agree about Verstappen - yes he was quick but only because he was wild. He got away with it which shows skill but he was taking unnecessary risks with his life and the lives of others.

The paint Kimi drove over was the grid markers, not the track marker, so he can't be blamed for that.  I think the track was in red flag conditions when Kimi crashed.  As for the rest of the time, I would rather see them racing, but hardly fault them for being cautious.  American series don't like racing in the rain.  NASCAR and IndyCar won't go out if there's a drop on a racing oval.

Verstappen is a complicated situation.  Many fans feel the sport has become too sanitized, and a driver taking risks is interesting and a reason to watch.  The FIA doesn't want to be seen as taking all the risk and spectacle out of the sport.  Naturally it IS a sport, and they are responsible for fair competition and safety of all participants.  However, if there are no fans, there is no competition nor participants.  I would like to see the drivers themselves take a larger role in how rules are drafted and enforced.  They understand what is reasonable and safe far more than we do.

[lkjohnson1950]

Drivers can't agree. Verstappen wants to race and Vettel says it's too dangerous. In Brazil, I would say if water is running anywhere on the front "straight" it's too dangerous to run.
    It seems to have become OK to force a driver off the outside of the track at corner exit. You see it all the time. Probably because most of these areas are paved now. In Vettel's case, Max should have been called on it as Seb was forced onto wet grass. I can't believe he didn't lose the car.

[Alianora La Canta]

Whenever Ali has something to say I generally agree with 99% of it and wish I could put it down 50% as well.
Putting my ex-racer hat on again I would disagree with the sentiment that those conditions were 'red flag' conditions.
Almost all other series would have raced flag to flag in those conditions. Even motorbikes would have raced in those conditions.

They have tyres that can handle those conditions without blinding everybody. Blinded drivers make bad judgements and cause danger.

They have drivers who can remember not to drive on painted lines (half the F1 grid failed to do so). I would hope F3 drivers, for instance, would not, as a group, be quite that forgetful of basic wet-weather technique.

They don't restart races in worse conditions than they stopped them in. The moment one establishes that something on a given day is red-flaggable due to weather, it really is necessary to maintain that standard for the remainder of the day (at least!) unless a marked improvement in a relevant factor is identified.

Hope that helps make sense of my position. This was not a day that did my faith in F1 as the pinnacle of motorsport - or its desire to maintain/resume it - much good

It seems to have become OK to force a driver off the outside of the track at corner exit. You see it all the time. Probably because most of these areas are paved now. In Vettel's case, Max should have been called on it as Seb was forced onto wet grass. I can't believe he didn't lose the car.

Agreed. I happen also to believe that Pérez should have had a penalty for doing it to Verstappen and whoever did the same to Alonso earlier in the race likewise. This is supposed to be a sport, not fairground dodgems, and I fear for (among other things) the number of lawyers in my life if this escalates much further.

[Irisado]

I can't get involved in who did what behind the safety car, as Channel 4's highlights didn't show much of that, so I didn't see anything overly untoward, apart from varying speeds and gaps, which I didn't think was allowed.

What I will see is that Verstappen's drive was somewhat overrated in my opinion because he was on much fresher tyres than everyone he overtook, except his team mate, and we know that Ricciardo had problems with his visor.  As a result, he was flattered by his fresh tyres.  He certainly made the most of them, but it's important not to get carried away.

The race was very enjoyable and exciting in so many ways, but again they used the safety car too much.  If I think back to the 1990s and 2000s and how many races where the weather was worse and they didn't use the safety car, I'd say that they are still using it too frequently.  The majority of drivers who crashed all touched white lines, a big no-no in the wet.  The only driver who went out as a result of aquaplaning was Raikkonen.  They really didn't need to keep using the safety car as often as they did, and the last red flag, as Hamilton said, achieved nothing.

In between all that, there was some very close racing, an imperious drive out front from Hamilton, and some great driving from the Force India drivers, Nasr, and Ocon (I agree that teams finishing outside the top ten should be awarded prize money, especially if they've scored points).

My overriding memory of the 2016 Brazilian Grand Prix, however, will be Massa's walk down the pit lane and the guard of honour.  That was so emotional and unique.  I'll never forget it.  Never had it been seen before and I very much doubt that will see it again.