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Author Topic: Manor Placed in Administration  (Read 8737 times)

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Manor Placed in Administration
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2017, 11:15:36 PM »
  • Publish
  • There's a story emerging that Manor saviours are being frustrated by the Jules Bianchi affair and possible claims against the team arising from his death.

    Due diligence by investors throws up the legal possibility of the team facing an open ended claim over the death, no one wants to sign up to a bottomless money pit from this situation without assurances.

    Who is going to indemnify interested parties from future claims?  :DntKnw: Certainly not the administrators or the previous owners, so the Manor team as presently constituted is probably unsalable. 

    Maybe the only way for new investors to escape the liability is to let the old entities go bust and buy up the assets from the ashes. But will the F1 entrance licence be able to traded in such a way?  :DntKnw:

    Seems a bit oddly-worded. Claims are not "possible" - there's a definite one, that's been in the public domain since May. The UK doesn't have the "chained claim" effect that the USA has due to double jeopardy laws; it would be impossible for any suit from the Bianchis to follow the current one (though of course the current one can be appealed through 2 layers of appeal structure if the first attempt isn't done correctly or new evidence comes to light).

    There would also be the issue of whether any legal blame attaches to the team or to individuals associated with the team at the time (in case of guilt) - that would be for a judge to determine, and not something I would wish to comment upon in a public place before the case happens. As such, it is impossible in UK law to indemnify someone against something that's already occurred.

    The problem is not something that can be ducked out of by buying the assets, since the liability follows the same company as the F1 entry does.

    Attempting to sell the F1 entry from one company to another immediately dissolves the F1 entry without refund or compensation.

    The F1 entry is necessary for the team to be worth more than momento value. So either the team has the entry and the liability, or it has neither.

    Note, however, that if Manor/Marussia was found guilty of anything, the judge is obliged to take into account changes between the event and the ruling. A change in owners, with the newcomers not doing whatever gave rise to actions that triggered the guilty verdict, would be deemed to partially mitigate damages. There would also be mitigation involved (from Manor/Marussia's perspective) in the event that the blame was shared between it and one or both of the other co-defendents (FOM and FIA). I'm probably not surprising anyone by suggesting the other co-defendents named in the case have a case to answer.

    While Manor-as-Marussia could theoretically have seen a claim from the de Villottas if the Bianchi claim succeeds (since similar failure mechanisms - from the Manor/Marussia perspective - are involved), it probably wouldn't happen as the de Villottas would have to appeal a HSE ruling (that Manor/Marussia hadn't done anything worth prosecuting) before Manor could incur expenses from any legal process. Historically, that has not proven particularly successful.

    I have a strange feeling that Manor isn't dead yet. But I don't see how it can be otherwise, and it may just be denial.
    « Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 11:17:30 PM by Alianora La Canta »
    Percussus resurgio
    @lacanta (Twitter)
    http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

    Offline cosworth151

    Re: Manor Placed in Administration
    « Reply #31 on: March 20, 2017, 11:48:05 AM »
  • Publish
  • “You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
    ― Bob Dylan

    Offline Irisado

    Re: Manor Placed in Administration
    « Reply #32 on: March 22, 2017, 10:19:02 PM »
  • Publish
  • Very sad.  I am very disheartened by the collapse of what is, essentially, Formula 1's last small team.  The rules must be changed to get more teams into Formula 1.  This sustainability problem cannot be allowed to continue.
    Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

    Offline Jericoke

    Re: Manor Placed in Administration
    « Reply #33 on: March 23, 2017, 02:15:53 PM »
  • Publish
  • Very sad.  I am very disheartened by the collapse of what is, essentially, Formula 1's last small team.  The rules must be changed to get more teams into Formula 1.  This sustainability problem cannot be allowed to continue.

    Sauber remains a small team.

    Haas has demonstrated the correct way to enter F1.  It ain't cheap, but there's a blue print to be followed beyond simply buying an existing outfit.

    Hopefully Liberty can use that blueprint to entice other new investors.  Surely watching the Manor/Lotus/HRT disaster really dissuaded other investors.  You may not be able to join the sport on the cheap like Max promised, but at least you know how much it costs to join well.

    Offline Irisado

    Re: Manor Placed in Administration
    « Reply #34 on: March 24, 2017, 05:57:30 PM »
  • Publish
  • Sauber is a midfield team, which has begun to be perceived as a small team because of how Formula 1 has developed, not because it is a small team in of itself.

    The last small teams were those who joined under Mosley's failed budget cap.  Before that, the last of the true small team was Minardi, which, from 1997 (if you exclude the failed Lola team) up until 2005 was the only true small team left competing in Formula 1.  Before 1997, there were all sorts of small teams, most of which had disappeared by the early 1990s.  Simtek (1994-95), Pacific (1994-95), and Forti (1995-96) were the last trio of small teams, and, in much the same way as Lotus (Caterham), Virgin (Marussia; Manor), and Hispania (HRT) discovered subsequently, the inherent biased structure of Formula 1's financial system made it impossible for them to survive.
    Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

    Offline Jericoke

    Re: Manor Placed in Administration
    « Reply #35 on: March 24, 2017, 08:24:56 PM »
  • Publish
  • Sauber is a midfield team, which has begun to be perceived as a small team because of how Formula 1 has developed, not because it is a small team in of itself.

    The last small teams were those who joined under Mosley's failed budget cap.  Before that, the last of the true small team was Minardi, which, from 1997 (if you exclude the failed Lola team) up until 2005 was the only true small team left competing in Formula 1.  Before 1997, there were all sorts of small teams, most of which had disappeared by the early 1990s.  Simtek (1994-95), Pacific (1994-95), and Forti (1995-96) were the last trio of small teams, and, in much the same way as Lotus (Caterham), Virgin (Marussia; Manor), and Hispania (HRT) discovered subsequently, the inherent biased structure of Formula 1's financial system made it impossible for them to survive.

    I do see what you mean, and I stand corrected.

    F1 is not a place for small teams, and it was a mistake to ever believe that there could be a place for small teams.  Few other sports even contemplate allowing such un even competition.

    I've read that Liberty wants to promote the sport like NFL football.  If it means NFL style revenue sharing, I'm all for it.  (I'm aware that EU rules would probably preclude the strict control the NFL exerts over its franchises, but something will be better than nothing)

    Offline Irisado

    Re: Manor Placed in Administration
    « Reply #36 on: March 26, 2017, 04:57:05 PM »
  • Publish
  • It used to be a place for small teams and it should be a place for small teams.  This, alongside sorting out the aerodynamics to improve overtaking, are, for me, the two most significant challenges facing the new owners.
    Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

    Offline Dare

    Re: Manor Placed in Administration
    « Reply #37 on: March 26, 2017, 06:02:27 PM »
  • Publish
  • Too bad they don't allow a team to enter one car.It would
    make it affordable for a few,maybe.
    "The
    democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
    who are
    willing to work and give to those who would not."
    --
    Thomas
    Jefferson

    Offline Alianora La Canta

    Re: Manor Placed in Administration
    « Reply #38 on: March 27, 2017, 01:20:41 PM »
  • Publish
  • There does, however, need to be something for teams between 30 people (approximate maximum for a F2/R3.5 team) and 350 people (a bit the size of the smallest team, which is currently a tie between Toro Rosso and Force India, at least until Force India finishes its current hiring spree).
    Percussus resurgio
    @lacanta (Twitter)
    http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

     


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