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Author Topic: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes  (Read 10153 times)

Online Jericoke

Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« on: June 25, 2017, 05:44:49 PM »
Well this is going to be a far more complicated list than normal.  (Honorary mention of Azerbaijan getting its own race instead of getting the debatable 'European' moniker.)

Heroes:
Ricciardo:  to finish first, first you have to finish.  Keep your nose clean (and your smile wide) and you never know what's going to happen in an F1 race

Bottas:  a rough start, took advantage of the safety cars and continued to demonstrate he is one of the 'Big Boys' in F1.  Could have given up, but literally fought to the last moment for a second place finish.

Stroll:  the best ever finish for a 'worst ever' rookie.

Honda:  two finishes!  Maybe not heroic for most, but certainly a genuine step forward for a group that should already be a dozen steps ahead of where they are.

Zeroes
Hamilton:  we get it - everyone in F1 should just do what you ask at all times. 

Vettel:  F1 is a sport that requires you to pay attention at all times, especially on restarts.  Oh, and in Canada not having two hands on the wheel is an automatic fail in a driving test.

Renault:  both as engine suppliers and as a racing team - they work hard but seem to be missing an extra level that other teams/suppliers have.

FIA:  there seems to confusion about what drivers can/can't do, or what sort of things mechanics can/can't do with the cars.  Penalizing Kimi and Checo just made them pull off.  How did that improve the competition, the safety or the spectacle for paying fans?



Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2017, 09:45:27 PM »
If Ferrari and FIF1 had pulled the cars out of line I could see the penalty, but both were already being worked on when the red was flown. Are they then supposed to stop work until the restart? That's ridiculous.

I'd give a shout out to Magnussen. Despite having much the same problem with the brakes as Grosjean, he persevered, made it to the finish, and got points. That said, Haas has a problem because it affects both cars not just Romain's.
Lonny

Offline Dare

Re: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2017, 10:11:55 PM »
This race was a bore festa until the end and it turned into
one of the better race all year for me.

Heros

glad to see Danny win even though he had a lot of help

Massa had a great race going until his problems

Glad for Lance if for no other reason than JV

Bottas-a drive from last to a last milli-second pass for second


Zeros

Hamilton for a brake check I saw and no one else it seems.
Maybe the head strap was karma

Vettle-if not for his hissy fit he'd have won the race after
Lewis's problems

Hamilton-once again just because your Lewis Hamilton rules apply
to you and no not everyone has to pull over and let you pass or Bottas[I hope]isn't there to slow cars up so you can catch up

Kimi-my favorite driver has more bad races than good.
Mark Twain once opined, "it's easier to con someone than to convince them they've been conned."

Offline Andy B

Re: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2017, 05:58:21 AM »
I'm hearing some say it was a great race but I don't think it was it was an interesting race that kept your attention but not great although that depends on your definition of "A great race"?

Hero's
Bottas - Put his hands up to running into Kimi then ran from the back of the grid to second place.
Stroll - Drove a sensible race and kept out of trouble had good pace or he would have been caught.
Ricciardo - A few more laps and he would have been caught but like Stroll kept out of trouble and looked after the car.
Alonso - For bringing the asthmatic donkey home in the points.

Zero's
Hulkenberg - A whole heap of points for the taking and he finds the wall.
Vettel - Road rage has no place in F1 for any reason.
Merc mechanic - How many time must he have fitted that head rest? Poor chap must feel terrible!

It was interesting that LH could not run down SV after the pit stop and penalty was it turbulence or tyres or maybe they equal grunt?

Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline Scott

Re: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2017, 06:20:00 AM »
I agree it was effectively a brake check Dare.  Vettel was a bonehead for the move afterward though.  Maybe the hit did dislodge LH's headrest, and like you said, that would be karma.  I also wonder if all the wing damage caused Vettel's car to have an unusual wake afterward that LH's car couldn't close in on, along with his diffuser being damaged.

Ocom and Perez.  Although I wouldn't call it against either driver, it was a stupid move at that point in the race and a shame both cars were effectively pushed way back.  Ocom will have to figure a way past Perez if he really is faster this season though.  I hope it isn't the team that enforces it though.  I think Perez could have had a podium.

Really happy for all three podium finishers.  Maybe my shoulders were pushed back a wee bit the rest of the day after having a CDN on the podium after so many years without. 

Fantastic job by Force India and Ferrari to get their drivers back in the race even though stick-in-the-mud race control deemed it to be not worth the show.  When will the FIA understand that F1 is entertainment as much as anything, and they just hurt the sport with thoughtless decisions.  Some consideration must be made to the show.  If a team manages to get a car back in the game after a wreck, then let them race penalty free no matter what.  Place them based on their lap count and then stay out of it.

I haven't dared to look at my GG points, but I think it will be pretty sad for most of us with those results.

Hamilton...well, not much to say, he is going to bore us with his whining until he retires and starts trying to make music.  Hope he will have another lousy season and it will come sooner than later.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 08:58:59 AM by Scott »
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2017, 01:27:08 PM »
I was utterly disgusted by that race. So many things were wrong with how it was managed that I have no confidence that any of the results we saw would have been the same had the stewarding, race direction and marshalling been up to scratch.

Zeroes:

The race direction/marshalling/stewarding. The list of errors runs thus:

Lap 1: Lots of carbon fibre about the place. Not swept up, which itself decided the shape of much of the race. Also, penalising the wrong driver for the Bottas/Raikkonen crash. It was not Raikkonen's fault. No penalty for dangerous re-joining of the track for Kyvat.

Next several laps: Raikkonen shedding bodywork all over the place. Nothing was done. No meatball flag, no attempt to sweep up the mess.

Kyvat spins off: Ridiculously long time taken for Kyvat to be removed from the track. No attempt to sweep up the large amount of debris on the track. Safety Car driven very slowly despite the above. It all spoke of a total lack of co-ordination or skill. This was the point where I thought Azerbaijan needs to be removed from the calendar until it can build up a sufficient national scene to enable effective "practise" for its marshals. (The unlapping procedure was groanworthy but is, at least, a regulation).

Second safety car: shouldn't have been needed, because it was prompted by the first Safety Car not being used effectively to sweep up debris and people having to guess what to do about it.

Third safety car: ditto (albeit less blatantly - Ocon's car looked damaged to me even before he hit his team-mate). Also, the stewards' claims about Hamilton's driving were not borne out by the on-board cameras on his conduct during the safety cars. Both Hamilton's and Vettel's driving looks at best, highly suspicious, and more likely deliberate. Therefore I'm inclined to believe the standard penalty for deliberate car weaponisation should be used - DSQ and probation - for both Hamilton and Vettel.

Hamilton's foam collar: should have been black-and-orange flagged, not negotiated with Mercedes.

Various times: marshals trying to clear debris from the racing line with cars going by, when that should be done when there are no cars in the firing line (by VSC or SC). A serious misuse of the tools in the marshalling toolbox, and on several occasions I was worried we were going to have a serious accident as a result.

At that point, it's difficult for me to look beyond all that to properly assess how the drivers coped with that much official error. Maybe I should just be thankful we're mostly only looking at wrecked cars (and, in Force India's case, a lost podium).
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline cosworth151

Re: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2017, 04:22:17 PM »
Heroes:

K-Mag, for doing the best he could with the equipment he had and bringing home points.

Alonso, Bottas, Danny Ric & Stroll, for the reasons already listed.

Wehrlein, for once again finishing better than Ericsson & validating Monisha Kaltenborn was right. (See Zeroes below)


Zeroes:

Longbow Finance - They're the Finnish outfit who now own Sauber. They fired Monisha Kaltenborn for not favoring Finnish driver Marcus Ericsson over Pascal Wehrlein. Idiots!

Perez & Ocon - They had an outside shot at a double podium finish for FIF1 if they hadn't decided to play bumper cars.

Hamilton & Vettel - For their remake of Dumb & Dumber.

The folks in charge of the marshaling - Way too long to get Kyvat's car off the circuit. The slow Safety Car was causing problems for all of the cars. In the Chat Room, we were wondering if they were communicating the location of the tractor with the S/C. We thought that might have been why they were driving so slowly. They had no idea when they might round a blind corner and find a slow moving piece of heavy equipment moving down the track.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 10:43:22 PM by cosworth151 »
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Dare

Re: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2017, 07:10:00 PM »
I feel justified with Ali finding fault with Hamilton's unseen
brake check.  Vettle was wrong in not doubt ramming Hamilton's
car[cars don't turn right on their own] but if Lewis hadn't acted
like a idiot the melee wouldn't have happened.

You can quote me telemetry or in car vids but I'll never be
convinced it wasn't a brake check. Hamilton made the left hand turn
and slowed intentionally 
Mark Twain once opined, "it's easier to con someone than to convince them they've been conned."

Offline Scott

Re: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2017, 07:30:34 PM »
Suddenly lifting in a race car is just like hitting the brakes - they don't coast.  Lewis had every right supposedly, but he's still an idiot IMO.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Dare

Re: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2017, 08:12:32 PM »




He didn't slow down ?
Mark Twain once opined, "it's easier to con someone than to convince them they've been conned."

Offline Robem64

Re: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2017, 08:44:07 PM »
I'll add one more zero for those who watched the Sky Coverage...

Johnny Herbert for his awful interview technique on the drivers parade. Particularly when he asked Hamilton about his "Jamaican" friends. For those who saw it, I'm sure you'd agree....a very awkward moment.
"I'm not a pessimist, I'm an optimist with experience"

Offline Ian

Re: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2017, 10:25:45 PM »
Sorry but I still say Hamilton never brake tested Vettel, after watching the replay several times it looked to me that Hamilton just carried on driving slowly waiting to pick his time to floor it and Vettel was expecting, understandibly, for Hamilton to go, but he never, ergo, Vettel hit him, but there is no excuse for what followed, 10 sec stop and go, pathetic.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline Andy B

Re: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2017, 11:26:36 PM »
Sorry but I still say Hamilton never brake tested Vettel, after watching the replay several times it looked to me that Hamilton just carried on driving slowly waiting to pick his time to floor it and Vettel was expecting, understandibly, for Hamilton to go, but he never, ergo, Vettel hit him, but there is no excuse for what followed, 10 sec stop and go, pathetic.

Well done Ian for picking that up it has also been confirmed by LH's data that he did no different on any of the three safety cars that he encountered and Vettel managed to miss him on two of them. It was also confirmed that Vettel was not brake tested!
I find it amazing that the band wagon jumps on LH for the slightest thing but the rants Vettel has had and his whinging is worse than anyone on the grid but hardly gets a mention.
I believe that the broadcasters are picking out items to broadcast and so making them seem like bad guys, i.e. Grosjean, the teams and drivers are chatting all the time so its selective and at times gives a false impression.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline Scott

Re: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2017, 10:14:09 AM »
JS seems to think Lewis should take some of the blame, as do I.

https://sportinglife.com/formula1/news/stewart:-hamilton-to-blame-as-well/81254
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Ian

Re: Azerbaijan Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2017, 10:32:07 AM »
Sorry Scott, I'm a fan of JS but he's completely wrong here, the FIA went through Lewis's telemetry and have stated that he did not brake suddenly and he had done nothing wrong.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

 


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