collapse

* Welcome

Welcome to GPWizard F1 Forum!

GPWizard is the friendliest F1 forum you'll find anywhere. You have a host of new like-minded friends waiting to welcome you.

So what are you waiting for? Becoming a member is easy and free! Take a couple seconds out of your day and register now. We guarantee, you wont be sorry you did.

Click Here to become a full Member for Free

* User Info

 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

* Newsletter

GPWizard F1 Forum Newsletter Email address:
Weekly
Fortnightly
Monthly

* Grid Game Deadlines

Qualifying

Race

* Shoutbox

Refresh History
  • Wizzo: Chat room now available. See you in there
    July 05, 2020, 02:05:12 PM
  • cosworth151: Hey Wizzo. I can see that you & dd are in the chat room but I can't get in!
    July 05, 2020, 02:04:26 PM
  • Wizzo: Hi Andy, ill look at this tomorrow.  Thanks
    May 19, 2020, 10:08:09 PM
  • Andy B: Hi Wiz, I have tried to make a donation using my UK bank account but PayPal will not accept the card as I live in NZ and have a UK card? This is not your problem but is there a way I can just pay directly with a Visa card?
    May 18, 2020, 10:41:51 PM
  • Wizzo: GPW will be down from approximately 13:30 tomorrow until the migration to the new server is complete. Once the site is "live" on the new server it could take another 24-48 hours to become accessible to all users.
    May 14, 2020, 03:18:44 PM
  • Wizzo: I've made some changes to GPW. Try it now
    April 29, 2020, 02:33:08 PM
  • lkjohnson1950: Hey Wiz, Quarantine Diaries doesn't display right for me. The bottom is cut off of the page and I can't see any post after Alia's.
    April 28, 2020, 08:13:44 PM
  • Dare: Hope your doing ok Braden...just now saw your comment. Don't be a stanger
    April 20, 2020, 04:04:18 AM
  • BraydenSoh: Hi everyone! How's life? Hope everybody still doing well!
    April 13, 2020, 03:48:17 PM
  • Wizzo: Session problem now solved. Thanks
    February 05, 2020, 09:43:41 AM
  • John S: Hey! Anyone else notice the huge number of guests on the site today - Wow!!  :yahoo:
    December 03, 2019, 08:38:00 PM
  • Wizzo: Please note: Japanese qualifying times have been updated.
    October 11, 2019, 02:05:42 PM
  • Scott: I'll be in chat for a change...hope some others will make it too.
    September 07, 2019, 08:58:16 PM
  • cosworth151: This Sunday is Mothers Day here in the States. I'll be helping with the free breakfast we do at our Amvets Post every M's Day, so I'll be popping in and out of the Chat Room
    May 10, 2019, 03:57:04 PM
  • Wizzo: Mothers day here in the UK so I will be absent in the chat room today. Have fun!
    March 31, 2019, 10:47:48 AM
  • Jericoke: For newcomers to GPWizard, make sure you check out the live chat during the race!  It's the best way to turn a dull race into a great time, and the cherry on top of a great race!  (I won't be able to attend Aussie though)
    March 15, 2019, 07:48:58 PM
  • Wizzo: The 2019 Grid Game is now open. Please check out the new rules before entering.
    February 17, 2019, 04:56:33 PM
  • John S: Glad the site is back online, we don't know how much we like it til it's gone. Thanks Wizzo.
    February 02, 2019, 09:19:33 PM
  • Calman: Glad to see you back online Wizzo.  Did the issue point to a corrupted MySQL Data Table?
    February 02, 2019, 08:53:13 PM
  • Wizzo: I apologise for the downtime. Normal service has been resumed.
    February 02, 2019, 07:53:12 PM

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 43
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

* Top Posters

cosworth151 cosworth151
15374 Posts
Scott Scott
13924 Posts
Dare Dare
12403 Posts
John S John S
10225 Posts
Ian Ian
9686 Posts

* IntentsGP Advert

pre-erected f1 camping & glamping with intentsGP

Author Topic: 2018 Grand Prix of Bahrain  (Read 5054 times)

Offline cosworth151

Re: 2018 Grand Prix of Bahrain
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2018, 04:29:27 PM »
If I understood them on the Sky feed, the Ferrari system checks to see if all 4 lugs are tight. They were on Kimi's car because the left rear had never been loosened. In Kimi's defense, he might not have know that the crewman had been injured. All I heard on his radio was "Stop, stop, stop." He seemed to be looking down as he walked back. I'd like to see them bring back the old lolly pop man, someone actually looking at the car.

I'm very happy about K-Mag getting 5th. Of course, if Grosjean would have let him by he might have been 4th.

One of the biggest surprises is the WDC standings. Alonso is 4th! K-Mag is 9th, one place ahead of Max.   :yahoo:
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: 2018 Grand Prix of Bahrain
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2018, 06:11:53 PM »
If I understood them on the Sky feed, the Ferrari system checks to see if all 4 lugs are tight. They were on Kimi's car because the left rear had never been loosened. In Kimi's defense, he might not have know that the crewman had been injured. All I heard on his radio was "Stop, stop, stop." He seemed to be looking down as he walked back. I'd like to see them bring back the old lolly pop man, someone actually looking at the car.

The Channel 4 post-DNF interview seemed to indicate Kimi had no idea why the Ferrari staff were looking away from his car at that point, and hadn't lingered at the scene because, whatever it was, he wouldn't have been any help in that situation. I did see him briefly look in the direction of the gaggle of Ferrari mechanics before going into the pits, but he may still have been in "race mode" (they can't help me, I can't help them to help me, OK, next...)

I would have hoped the press officer appraised him of the reason as soon as practicable (note that they're not always allowed to delay the "media pen" interviews long enough to do this before they happen).

The idea I like is from Andrew McLaren (not a McLaren pit crew member...), who said the automated system should be banned and everyone be required to check manually that each corner is ready before releasing cars. Which is pretty much what cos said ;)
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Ian

Re: 2018 Grand Prix of Bahrain
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2018, 07:09:39 PM »
Perhaps they shouldn't have got rid of the guy with the stop banner in front of the drivers face, he can see everything and the driver can't move until it's lifted, problem solved, technology's not the be all and end all solution.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

guest3164

  • Guest
Re: 2018 Grand Prix of Bahrain
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2018, 08:30:44 PM »
I do miss the lollipop guys, it added a little to the drama of a pitstop.  I personally think it was just one of those freak incidents but obviously we want to negate any potential for injury even if it is not possible due to the nature of the sport.  The one thing I don't want is to remove any pitstops.  F1 tried the no tyre changes and that experiment didn't work.  I would like to see refuelling back for the reasons Scott mentioned.  More variables create more strategies and more interesting races, even if maybe it makes it harder to follow for the new audience that Liberty media are trying to entice in. 

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: 2018 Grand Prix of Bahrain
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2018, 11:00:14 PM »
I think part of the solution is obvious; there are too many people in the pitlane. How about limiting it to one mechanic per wheel. I think F1 is the only series that allows unlimited crew members to work on the car during a pitstop. And why did the rear jackman drop the car? He should have seen there was a problem on the left rear.
Lonny

Offline Calman

Re: 2018 Grand Prix of Bahrain
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2018, 01:29:55 AM »
Hi folks!

Just getting "back online" after an action packed Bahrain GP.

So, you have pretty much covered everything above, as I am a bit late to the party.

However, my own personal view on the Ferrari pit stop incident is ... technology is essentially a good thing, but when it goes wrong, the outcome can be catastrophic.  In this circumstance, I would vote for a return of the Lollypop, where every mechanic around the car MUST raise a hand when their procedure is complete.  Even a bright green/orange glove could "visually" help? ... just my thoughts on this folks.

Yes, pit stops are about 100ths of a second, but safety must come first for everyone involved.

All the best,
Cal :)
Anyone Have A Decent Pen?

Offline Irisado

Re: 2018 Grand Prix of Bahrain
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2018, 04:52:36 PM »
This was an improvement on the Australian Grand Prix, but that wouldn't have been an overly difficult task.  There was some genuine racing and a reasonably tense finish, all of which made this race at least resemble something akin to Formula 1 that I know and love.  I'm still struggling so much to come to terms with the appearance and speed of the cars though.

There were some very surprising results.  I'm impressed that Gasly's Toro Rosso Honda was able to sustain that level of pace and finish the race.  This was a very impressive performance.  It was also a very good race for Magnussen and Ericsson, both of whom drove very well to collect valuable points for Haas and Sauber.  The points are especially vital for Sauber, given how difficult it is likely to be for them to score consistently this year, and for Ericsson himself, given his new team mate is highly rated and the Swede hadn't scored any points for fifty races.

Max Verstappen, by contrast, really is not covering himself in glory at the moment.  His qualifying accident was entirely his mistake in my opinion, while his brush with Hamilton in the race was caused by him being too aggressive, and not for the first time either.  He still has quite a bit of maturing to do in my opinion.

Williams had a very poor weekend by their standards.  I'm trying to think when it was a Williams had previously started from last position on pure pace alone (i.e. not because of a penalty of any kind).  I certainly can't remember such a situation arisigin for William since some time in the 1980s perhaps.  I'll have to see if I can find the answer.  It's not as though they were overly slow, but with this year's field spread being so small, being off the pace in the midfield means ending up at the back of the grid.

Finally, regarding this whole question of pit stops my view is that they need to stop relying on electronics to release the drivers.  Ferrari have previously had a lot of problems with their automated system in particular, so I am surprised that they continue to rely on it so heavily.  In addition, some kind of minimum pit stop time would seem sensible to me.  Either way, the FIA needs to make some kind of change to the rules, otherwise in the never ending quest to find more time, mechanics will continue to be under so much pressure to turn around the cars in less than three or four seconds that mistakes like this will continue to happen and injuries, such as the one sustained by the Ferrari mechanic, are likely to occur again.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 04:54:10 PM by Irisado »
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Jericoke

Re: 2018 Grand Prix of Bahrain
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2018, 07:48:07 PM »

Finally, regarding this whole question of pit stops my view is that they need to stop relying on electronics to release the drivers.  Ferrari have previously had a lot of problems with their automated system in particular, so I am surprised that they continue to rely on it so heavily.  In addition, some kind of minimum pit stop time would seem sensible to me.  Either way, the FIA needs to make some kind of change to the rules, otherwise in the never ending quest to find more time, mechanics will continue to be under so much pressure to turn around the cars in less than three or four seconds that mistakes like this will continue to happen and injuries, such as the one sustained by the Ferrari mechanic, are likely to occur again.

While I agree something must be done about pitstops, forcing them to be longer will change the way strategy works.  right now, you take 2 20 second stops, and hope to gain 20 seconds on track over someone who takes one 20 second stop.  If you take 2 23 second stops, you need to gain 23 seconds.  If teams could find an extra 3 seconds per race, they already would, so pit stop strategy will become far more homogenized, with far more under/over cut attempts.

I agree that we need to remove dangerous pit stops, but in terms of spectacle, the only solution I see is removing pitstops entirely, or making tires that degrade even quicker.

While I appreciate the ballet of a perfect stop, and enjoy the strategic element of when to bring drivers in... tracks and teams can save a good amount of money not having to setup pitlanes for quick tire changes.  Not to mention not shipping dozens of tires per car per weekend.

Of course, wet weather tires throws a wrench (or spanner if you prefer) into that idea.  However, if the cars are forced to pull into the garage for a 30 second stop, at least all of them have to do it.

Offline Calman

Re: 2018 Grand Prix of Bahrain
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2018, 08:53:13 PM »
I agree that we need to remove dangerous pit stops, but in terms of spectacle, the only solution I see is removing pitstops entirely, or making tires that degrade even quicker.

Personally, I think they have messed around with the tyre life enough in the last few years.   Pirelli were asked to change the compounds/surfaces for more dramatic action, then the complaints came in about "hitting the cliff" ... and since then, they have been revised so many times, where right now, the balance of tyre life seems about right.

Myself, I would welcome the return of refuelling, but it would have to be a far better system than that damn heavy rig that never connected/disconnected properly (and Massa taking it on tour down the pit lane).

All the best,
Cal :)

Anyone Have A Decent Pen?

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: 2018 Grand Prix of Bahrain
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2018, 11:31:10 PM »
I think part of the solution is obvious; there are too many people in the pitlane. How about limiting it to one mechanic per wheel. I think F1 is the only series that allows unlimited crew members to work on the car during a pitstop.

F1 has a crew limit (of 23); it's just over twice the amount any other series allows (I think the next-largest amount allowed "over the wall" in any motorsport series is 12, for IMSA and Indycars). Which still doesn't explain why the limit isn't 12...
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline John S

Re: 2018 Grand Prix of Bahrain
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2018, 02:16:11 PM »
I think part of the solution is obvious; there are too many people in the pitlane. How about limiting it to one mechanic per wheel. I think F1 is the only series that allows unlimited crew members to work on the car during a pitstop.

F1 has a crew limit (of 23); it's just over twice the amount any other series allows (I think the next-largest amount allowed "over the wall" in any motorsport series is 12, for IMSA and Indycars). Which still doesn't explain why the limit isn't 12...

I feel the real "Wow factor" of F1 pit stops would be lost by lowering the headcount or imposing minimum times.

This really comes down to the choice by the teams to allow computer decisions, which are clearly milliseconds faster than human, to run their release lights.

To ensure safety the FIA must mandate human rather than algorithm gives release command. We will hardly notice the difference - Wow factor retained with fewer unsafe releases.
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Scott

Re: 2018 Grand Prix of Bahrain
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2018, 07:07:14 AM »
Wow = 2-3 seconds of blur.  Nobody can see what is taking place unless they focus on one corner of the car, and even then there are 4-5 people in front of any action.  Only the replays end up showing us what happens. 

I would rather see it go back to the 5-6 second range, in the interests of safety, strategy and to make it interesting to watch.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: 2018 Grand Prix of Bahrain
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2018, 10:32:21 AM »
According to Max, his engine's software went haywire. Now that could mean a lot of things as these Power Units do not run anywhere near capacity, but since the electric part of the hybrid generates about 150 BHP, I suspect that for whatever reason his battery dumped all its power too soon in the corner and overpowered the rear tires.

It could also have jumped gear when it clouted over the kerb. That could feel like an extra 150 bhp, whether the data supports that or not. Also, if the engine software mapping is designed to treat the engine differently to boost power at low revs (entirely permissible with current regulations), then the stats would probably reflect a 150 bhp boost in reality.

So this theory would be modern racing car design working against itself because of bad driving. A story that, with variations, could have been repeated by at least two previous generations of racing driver (the tendency dates back to when F1 cars became more than "merely faster" than the cars in junior series). I would not expect Max to be talking about the car changing gear over a kerb if his engineers were more prepared to emphasise an increase in bhp that they don't usually see (because they are accustomed to tidier drivers whose errors don't have such big knock-on consequences).
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal
Menu Editor Pro 1.0 | Copyright 2013, Matthew Kerle