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Author Topic: Mallya steps down?  (Read 2838 times)

Offline Scott

Re: Mallya steps down?
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2018, 06:59:49 PM »
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  • Not a bad move...keeps Renault engines anyway.  I just hope McLaren picks it up in the chassis department.
    The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

    Offline Alianora La Canta

    Re: Mallya steps down?
    « Reply #46 on: August 12, 2018, 10:22:44 AM »
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  • I kind of get why teams like Williams and McLaren would object, after all they operate within their budget even if it is to the detriment of the team (as you could suggest with Williams and their pair of pay drivers).  That said, I feel sorry for Force India as I get the feeling that some kind of financial mischief has gone on beyond the team that has led to their situation.  I would rather not see them disappear but I do get why other teams object, otherwise what is to stop them going into the red to over-perform, say sorry that they cannot clear their debts, go into administration and then keep their prize money. 

    It's the rock and a hard place situation.  I really hope it is sorted as although Force India are kind of Williams main opposition (well, not this year), I really do respect them.

    Williams and McLaren also get extra money for being old teams - even Williams' £10 m bonus CCB payment would have covered the £4 m initially cited in the administration document.

    Also, it's not clear that either team does keep a 100% within-budget system. It's just that because both have much bigger budgets in the first place, an overspill of a set amount is less of an issue for them because they have more leverage to quietly sort it out without resorting to administration and the like.

    Williams does at least have its share system to stop it going too far into the red, but McLaren really doesn't have anything to prevent its getting completely indebted. Also remember that Mercedes went $74 m over-budget last year, so complete indebtedness is happening all through the field. The difference is that Mercedes' debts are to internal debtors in other parts of the team, so the board will cover it (I believe McLaren has a similar situation to a rather lower extent). Williams (mostly) and Force India (entirely) don't have those options as they are mostly/wholly the F1 team.

    Williams can't afford to not object as its own liquidity is in danger if the Strolls move their money. McLaren is objecting because it expects to be beating Force India and even now, often isn't. Plus McLaren worries about Mercedes having too much influence over too many rivals (there is some proxy fighting going on between engine manufacturers).

    I'm expecting Kubica at Williams, unless he's outbid, and that gladdens my heart because Williams deserves an actual, proper racing driver (for all my gratitude to the Strolls, I have trouble calling Lance a proper racing driver so much as a "Professional F1 Driver" who goes through the actions required of a racing driver but doesn't really race. And Sirotkin has not shown himself to be an improvement over Stroll).

    I expect that Perez will be the other driver, in gratitude for his help in ensuring there was a team for Stroll to race at. What this means for Ocon is difficult to read at this juncture.
    Percussus resurgio
    @lacanta (Twitter)
    http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

    Offline Calman

    Re: Mallya steps down?
    « Reply #47 on: August 23, 2018, 04:53:43 AM »
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  • Anyone Have A Decent Pen?

    Offline Scott

    Re: Mallya steps down?
    « Reply #48 on: August 23, 2018, 06:07:31 AM »
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  • That would be such a shame and ultimately proof that there are too many lawyers involved in the sport.  Anyone with sense would say go and race and sort out the legalities later.
    The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

    Offline Calman

    Re: Mallya steps down?
    « Reply #49 on: August 23, 2018, 06:51:16 AM »
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  • That would be such a shame and ultimately proof that there are too many lawyers involved in the sport.  Anyone with sense would say go and race and sort out the legalities later.

     ... not too mention it, but it also screws up the crew involved in our F1 Dream Team 2018 - so I can expect fist banging, as I work on a 48hr solution for the players with FI, Perez or Ocon to "re-pick" and the summer break, OH JOY!!!

    Seriously though, ... and so say all of us!!! ... let those hard working guys see the reward of their efforts and let the pink panther join the race.  Then the pens and pinstripe suits can sort out the legal/financial crap later.

    Best Regards,
    Cal :)
    Anyone Have A Decent Pen?

    Offline Alianora La Canta

    Re: Mallya steps down?
    « Reply #50 on: August 23, 2018, 06:58:21 AM »
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  • That's largely the point - the Indian lawyers who froze the Force India holding company as part of Mallya's assets are not racers and are disinclined to do anything that helps Mallya out without going through the legally-binding forms.

    Of course, if Vijay had conducted his airline properly, the sale would have been nice and straightforward and I wouldn't have to contemplate my favourite team technically ceasing to exist.

    I want Force India to be able to race in Spa. I'm even willing for the team to be technically ceased if it means the actual existing team gets to race here and in the future.
    Percussus resurgio
    @lacanta (Twitter)
    http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

    Offline Calman

    Re: Mallya steps down?
    « Reply #51 on: August 23, 2018, 07:21:26 AM »
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  • Latest quote from Motorsport.com 9 hours ago ...

    "Itís understood that the team may be allowed by the FIA to run under its usual name and identity at Spa, if the situation with the new entry cannot be resolved in time."

    Best Regards,
    Cal :)
    Anyone Have A Decent Pen?

    Offline John S

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    Re: Mallya steps down?
    « Reply #52 on: August 23, 2018, 11:07:09 AM »
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  • All I can say is that the Indian Lawyers are either the most vindictive pratts or just plain lazy to not understand that the worth of the racing team is in being able to continue racing.

    If their intransigence results in either no enrty at Spa, (which I doubt as FIA & FOM are commited to keep FIF1 on the grid), or the new buyers lose the FOM income for this and subsequent years, I hope the new buyers refuse to hand over any monies due to Mallya, Roy or any Indian tax collector without dragging it all the way through the British courts.

     
    Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

    Offline Jericoke

    Re: Mallya steps down?
    « Reply #53 on: August 23, 2018, 02:21:55 PM »
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  • Wait, Stroll bought the physical assets, but not the FIA entry?  How did that even happen?

    It does create a bit of a legal headache for the FIA, they can't just let anyone with an F1 car show up and race, that would invalidate Concorde.

    Further, even if the FIA does allow Force Stroll (or whatever) to race, and someone is injured, would insurance cover it?  Fans, regulators, suppliers and creditors understand that the team needs to race, but insurance companies are famously not very understanding.

    Online Luke

    Re: Mallya steps down?
    « Reply #54 on: August 23, 2018, 02:27:54 PM »
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  • I guess the FIA could very quickly open up tenders for a new team, let Stroll apply and pay for a slot on the grid and get it sorted by the weekend.  It would be complicated, but possible. 

    Administration just covered the tangible assets of which the slot on the grid is not technically one, which is a daft concept. 
    Poster formerly known as Williamsfan.

    Offline Alianora La Canta

    Re: Mallya steps down?
    « Reply #55 on: August 23, 2018, 03:50:01 PM »
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  • All I can say is that the Indian Lawyers are either the most vindictive pratts or just plain lazy to not understand that the worth of the racing team is in being able to continue racing.

    They're bound by particular laws that restrict how frozen assets can be handled. They need a separate court case or injunction to unfreeze them, and they are on bad terms with Vijay Mallya because he fled to the UK and couldn't return to India if he wanted to without the permission of a UK court (as his passport is invalid and India can't issue an unrestricted one due to the current case). If Vijay had been in a position to swap out some of his other assets for the holding company, this might have stood a chance, but it's not clear if he even has sufficiently valuable assets, or if the proceedings to do the swapover could be done sufficiently quickly (India has a fairly impressive court case backlog, enough to rival Italy's, which is part of the reason why Vijay's case is nine years old).

    They know the value of the team - they may even over-value it.

    Stroll bought the physical assets because even as a new team, Force India's sheer strength makes it worth the costs. The FIA has complete freedom to accept or reject the request. It's not in the window for a tender request, so it is entitled under Concorde to use whatever principles it wishes to accept or reject the new team, under whichever terms or timeframes it wants. This will almost certainly include an increased entry fee due to the extra administration (I'd be impressed if it was kept as cheap as "a full season's fee even though actually you're only doing less than half of the year"). This would not be refundable in the event that the freeze was thawed, the holding company reunited with the rest of the company in time for Monza and the FIA/teams accepting the situation. Tenders do not need to be opened for this.

    The FIA is probably inclined to accept in this case because it's clear that this company can fund the team independently for a significant length of time if necessary (the situation the FIA rule is designed to ensure). Participation at Spa under "the usual identity" does not prejudice the FIA's consideration of the Strolls in any way, shape or form (at least not in theory). If the FIA allows the team in, then the team must have valid insurance (it's one of the entry requirements), so there would be coverage if someone got injured.

    The slot on the grid is attached to the holding company and by F1's rules cannot be separated from it. The holding company is stuck under an Indian company freeze, which is why the asset-only sale couldn't include it.
    Percussus resurgio
    @lacanta (Twitter)
    http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

    Online Luke

    Re: Mallya steps down?
    « Reply #56 on: August 23, 2018, 06:41:53 PM »
  • Publish
  • So they will race this weekend. 

    Racing Point Force India have been granted a slot on the grid by the FIA

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138205/new-racing-point-force-india-team-granted-entry
    Poster formerly known as Williamsfan.

    Offline John S

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    Re: Mallya steps down?
    « Reply #57 on: August 23, 2018, 07:23:39 PM »
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  • Seems Stroll and his investors factored in the loss of points and probable loss of income from FOM, I'm sure they're all still haggling over it though.

    Also looks like they've screwed the Indian authorities as the previous entry has been cancelled and a new one granted to the new owners, the old holding company will now be as worthless as Mallya's promises.


     
    Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

    Offline Jericoke

    Re: Mallya steps down?
    « Reply #58 on: August 23, 2018, 08:08:22 PM »
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  • So Racing Point might finish behind Force India in the standings?  Or are Force India's points being removed from the standings?

    Offline Calman

    Re: Mallya steps down?
    « Reply #59 on: August 23, 2018, 11:18:40 PM »
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  • So, the next part of the Force India Jigsaw .... does Lance Stroll jump from Williams before the end of the season? .. and what happens to Ocon??  (another Dream Team disaster waiting to happen!!).

    I think it would be a sin if Ocon doesn't have a drive in 2019, as he is too good to end up like so many before him (and they are "mainly" the drivers who didn't shine bright enough in a short timeline - personally, I think Ocon is talented and given the right equipment, could challenge the "big boys").

    Best Regards,
    Cal :)
    Anyone Have A Decent Pen?