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Author Topic: Grand Prix of Russia  (Read 2269 times)

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2018, 05:21:26 PM »
Why did they lie? They said at first that Hamilton needed to pass because his tires were blistering (and they were). The intimation was they would let Bottas back in front if possible at the end. Were they afraid Bottas wouldn't comply if they said Lewis needs the points?
Lonny

Offline Scott

Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2018, 06:44:04 PM »
Oh man, it's the old Schumacher / Massa, Vettel / Webber, and now Hamilton / Bottas dramas.  If I was Toto I would go back into the back room with Bottas and lay it out for him.  Mathematically, Bottas has NO chance at any championship.  Until it is mathematically impossible for Lewis to lose it, then Bottas will behave and make the race adjustments that management asks for.  Otherwise he can kiss any future contracts good bye.  It's all quite simple. 

Any Number two driver who really think they are free to race while their teammate is challenging or leading a championship are simply delusional.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

guest3164

  • Guest
Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2018, 06:57:57 PM »
I do not like the idea of team orders, but it happened and to be honest it is the faux 'upset' being played out by Mercedes and Hamilton that are most irritating.  Bottas is understandably miffed, bad luck at the beginning of the year is a large reason why he is out of the title race so he was kind of due a win.  But Mercedes playing the whole 'sorry, we didn't mean it' card is lame and Hamilton saying it is a bad way to win is also poor, if he felt so bad about it he could have defied the team (they are not going to penalise him, are they) and let Bottas back through at the finish line.  Merc wanted it, Hamilton gratefully accepted it, so stop pretending otherwise. 

Offline John S

Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2018, 07:12:43 PM »
Hear Hear Luke,  :good:
Bottas sourpuss face on the podium nearly soured my beer.

If Valtteri thought Lewis would not have applied the sort of pressure, that helped him pass Vettel, later in the race on him he's sadly mistaken.

The diffrence in being moved over or inevertably being fought and beaten for the win is obvious, the team were saving his blushes. Did he really need Lewis to ruin what confidence he still retains.  :D
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Scott

Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2018, 07:56:38 PM »
I think Lewis did have some tire issues and may have found it more difficult to pass as time went on, but at this stage in the season, Bottas needs to put his big boy pants on and be a big boy about it.  Nobody needed to say sorry - better they just say “Thanks”.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Online Dare

Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2018, 08:51:26 PM »
After Lewis sews up the title if Bottas is lucky they may on
a whim let him have a win.....if Lewis goes for it
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Online Dare

Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2018, 08:52:57 PM »
I missed qualifying so I hope Lewis didn't throw a Vettel and
whine and pout because Bottas got pole
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline rmassart

Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2018, 08:58:12 PM »
I think Vettel has it spot on:

"All the questions – I know you guys love controversy so therefore ask naughty questions to them as individuals, but I think in the position they are it’s a no-brainer what they did today. Maybe not all the questions are justified.”

Of course he would say that... in the hope his team are listening!

But I agree, Hamilton gained 7 points this way. Imagine he ended up losing the championship by 6 points. "That's sport" people would then say and to you and me that's correct. But not to the investors putting up the 100s of millions required to run a successful F1 team these days. It is as also a business and we can't hide that fact.

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2018, 10:35:43 PM »
I see Mercedes new found race pace is due to something Wolfe says they found during the Spa race weekend. Of course he's not saying what it is.

  In the garage, "Hey numb nuts, you forgot to put the engine up to 100%"
Lonny

Offline Andy B

Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2018, 01:08:32 AM »
Its a team sport so I'm unsure why some have to think its wrong? Fangio's last WC was gifted by Peter Collins as Fangio's car was failing so they swapped cars in a pit stop Collins said "I'm young enough to still win WC's sadly he was killed in a crash before he could. I think it was wrong when they did it and made it look fake.
Lewis seems to have become quite good at the PR stuff and the whining that some still keep on about is not there he openly praised Bottas for his pole lap.
If you also look back at those who have not become WC's maybe its due to not having the killer instinct or the self belief which maybe shows as arrogance. Look at previous WC's its there in them all.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline Robem64

Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2018, 08:25:01 AM »
I don't find it particularly palatable when racers are given team orders but as others have said - it's a team sport so why would it not happen.
In all honesty, I guess Ferrari this season could have been a bit more decisive with team orders at some points and maybe then Vettel would be less than 50 points behind LH.
"I'm not a pessimist, I'm an optimist with experience"

Online Dare

Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2018, 12:27:54 PM »
I don't think Ferrari could have been more decisive. The only
times Kimi beat Vettel were because of Seb's errors.
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2018, 09:46:49 PM »
I don't like team orders but at the end of championship battles, this is always how it's been done. The problem with this race was that the only stories apart from the Verstappen, Riccardo and Leclerc climbs through the grid were two different teams doing team orders. That gets boring - and with F1 having a deal with a gambling company for in-race betting, it's also a legal liability for F1 to have team orders (open or secret).
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Robem64

Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2018, 06:42:36 AM »
Great point Ali about the in-race betting.
"I'm not a pessimist, I'm an optimist with experience"

Offline monty

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Re: Grand Prix of Russia
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2018, 09:33:18 AM »
I do not understand why this is even a discussion point. Team orders have been a part of F1 since its inception. Years ago (when it was legal to change drivers) the teams even swapped drivers to maximise the WDC points (the only reason Peter Collins never won a championship!).
On this occasion it was very likely that Hamilton could have overtaken Bottas anyway. It was the only sensible thing for Mercedes to do and I think it was handled by both drivers very well.

 


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