McLaren link up with BAT

[lkjohnson1950]

Some early studies indicate that vaping is as bad, or possibly worse than cigarettes. A lot depends on the fuel (?) used to produce the vapor.

[Alianora La Canta]

If cost was what made you give it up, then it seems their strategy worked perfectly to get the cheap old farts (who probably don’t pay enough tax anyway  ) off the weed.  I gave it up to move to a healthier lifestyle.

As for the advertising and point of sale restrictions, it has nothing to do with people who already smoke, but to prevent the next generation to be quite so tempted.  It has had a positive impact in Canada, which is about a decade ahead of most European countries. 

The number of youth reporting to have never smoked increased from about 70% to 86% from 2000-2010 and trends suggest it will be well into the 90’s by the end of this decade.  This was accomplished through Restrictive advertising and blind point of sales (every tobacco product hidden from view), education and positive peer pressure (my cousin’s son recently said at his school it is truly only the very “un-cool” who smoke). 

Discussions about how governments spend their tax dollars is for another thread, but luxury taxes are as old as tax, and if it means you pay less somewhere else for the same level of government service, where is the problem?

The proportion of high school kids who 'vape' is much higher than the number of smokers there were when I was in high school.  It's a scourge even though it's supposed to be illegal for kids.  Vaping is what BAT and Mission Winnow are pushing.  It's still a nicotine delivery device, without the advantage of actually creating local jobs like tobacco did.

In my hometown, it seems every fourth new shop is a vape shop. All that brightly-coloured storefront and unusually polite attitude to teenagers is something they find refreshing, and it shows in the number of them who vape. There has been a 38% increase in vaping (not taking age into consideration, but they're likely to be the main ones starting) last year. Although vaping is not banned in indoor locations, the only placew I can think of that don't govern them on the same basis as cigarettes themselves are the open-air precinct (note: the stance does not apply to any of its shops) and the local role-playing store (their stance, in huge letters on their window, is: limit the vaping so as not to distract or annoy other players or staff, but the odd puff is fine. And by the way, no eating without permission from the staff).

[Scott]

Vaping is a whole new challenge, but vaping is not always a nicotine delivery system.  The majority of vape oil in Switzerland is nicotine free.  I was checking at a store this morning and of 16 flavors/brands available, only 3 contained nicotine.

I find it as annoying as smokers, especially because some vapers feel the need to exhale massive amounts upwind.  Also because it’s so new and in-studied, the potential health crisis could be massive, but it could also prove to be almost harmless (though I think putting anything into your lungs that coats them in residue is probably harmful).

But it has little to do with the argument about smoking/taxes.

[Jericoke]

But it has little to do with the argument about smoking/taxes.

That's almost literally Mission Winnow's goal:  let's confuse people so we can avoid existing barriers to our product.

Vaping is a whole new challenge, but vaping is not always a nicotine delivery system.  The majority of vape oil in Switzerland is nicotine free.  I was checking at a store this morning and of 16 flavors/brands available, only 3 contained nicotine.

There might be a large selection of oils, but I'd be interested in the actual volumes sold.  You've been in the service industry long enough to know that you offer a large selection, yet sell mostly the same thing.

I find it as annoying as smokers, especially because some vapers feel the need to exhale massive amounts upwind.  Also because it’s so new and in-studied, the potential health crisis could be massive, but it could also prove to be almost harmless (though I think putting anything into your lungs that coats them in residue is probably harmful).

See above.  In Ontario they've rolled vaping into existing tobacco legislation.  Can only Vape where you can legally smoke.  Can only buy Vape products if you can buy tobacco products.  I like that they're treating it exactly like smoking until someone can prove otherwise.

I don't know how the taxation situation is for the moment.  Our premiere is Doug Ford, brother of the infamous Toronto mayor Rob Ford (RIP), so he has very odd views of addiction.

[Alianora La Canta]

The UK taxes vaping products on the standard tax rate, without the cigarette tax (even the varieties including nicotine). Additional tax was considered but rejected pending further research into the health benefit/risk equation. Technically, under-18s can't buy e-cigs, have them bought for them or have them smoked in vehicles where they are present, but vaping shops I see don't bar them from entry and window-shopping, and people as young as 13 have successfully purchased e-cigs. It is up to shop owners whether to treat e-cigs as cigarettes or whether to permit them (and if so, under what circumstances - there's no rule against having an "e-smoker's area", and it doesn't have to have any of the smoke dissipation measures that used to apply to cigarette smoker areas in that transitional period between full permission and full ban. Oil delivery mechanisms vary by manufacturer, and a given shop is more likely to provision based on what the vape shop owner thinks is good on the market rather than whether it contains nicotine or not.

The UK bans e-cig advertising through the media, regardless of delivery mechanism; only the shopfronts and word-of-mouth are allowed to act as advertising for vaping products. This is because of the effects of secondhand smoke (the NHS is more concerned about the many associated chemicals than the nicotine, which even in those products that do use it, typically have much smaller amounts than even a "light" cigarette). The NHS recommends e-cigs as a second-line smoking cessation device, but will only fund prescriptions for first-line smoking cessation devices.

The EU, on the other hand, is set to impose a raised tax of some sort on vaping products (this is timed to occur post-Brexit) to compensate for lost revenues from conventional cigarettes, and also considering an advertising restriction on those e-cigs not specifically aimed at being smoking cessation products.