collapse

* Welcome

Welcome to GPWizard F1 Forum!

GPWizard is the friendliest F1 forum you'll find anywhere. You have a host of new like-minded friends waiting to welcome you.

So what are you waiting for? Becoming a member is easy and free! Take a couple seconds out of your day and register now. We guarantee, you wont be sorry you did.

Click Here to become a full Member for Free

* User Info

 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

* Newsletter

GPWizard F1 Forum Newsletter Email address:
Weekly
Fortnightly
Monthly

* Grid Game Deadlines

Qualifying

Race

* Shoutbox

Refresh History
  • Wizzo: Please note: Japanese qualifying times have been updated.
    October 11, 2019, 02:05:42 PM
  • Scott: I'll be in chat for a change...hope some others will make it too.
    September 07, 2019, 08:58:16 PM
  • cosworth151: This Sunday is Mothers Day here in the States. I'll be helping with the free breakfast we do at our Amvets Post every M's Day, so I'll be popping in and out of the Chat Room
    May 10, 2019, 03:57:04 PM
  • Wizzo: Mothers day here in the UK so I will be absent in the chat room today. Have fun!
    March 31, 2019, 10:47:48 AM
  • Jericoke: For newcomers to GPWizard, make sure you check out the live chat during the race!  It's the best way to turn a dull race into a great time, and the cherry on top of a great race!  (I won't be able to attend Aussie though)
    March 15, 2019, 07:48:58 PM
  • Wizzo: The 2019 Grid Game is now open. Please check out the new rules before entering.
    February 17, 2019, 04:56:33 PM
  • John S: Glad the site is back online, we don't know how much we like it til it's gone. Thanks Wizzo.
    February 02, 2019, 09:19:33 PM
  • Calman: Glad to see you back online Wizzo.  Did the issue point to a corrupted MySQL Data Table?
    February 02, 2019, 08:53:13 PM
  • Wizzo: I apologise for the downtime. Normal service has been resumed.
    February 02, 2019, 07:53:12 PM
  • Calman: Looks like the forum is experiencing Database/Server Issues! ... will check in later tonight.
    February 01, 2019, 01:11:41 AM
  • Calman: Thanks for getting back to me on that Wizzo ... I'll look at my donations when it's re-activated, thanks!
    December 14, 2018, 09:06:39 PM
  • Wizzo: No its not your imagination Cal. This option has been disabled for the time being.
    December 14, 2018, 03:50:09 PM
  • Calman: Is it my imagination, or has the "Shop" dropdown option disappeared from the navigation bar at the top of the forum?
    December 13, 2018, 07:59:13 PM
  • Wizzo: Thanks for letting me know. If anyone sees this issue again then please PM me.
    October 27, 2018, 10:19:33 AM
  • lkjohnson1950: OK, ot was alittle longer than 10 hours. Had problem 8 PM 10/24, was gone at 3:30 10/25.
    October 26, 2018, 03:53:12 PM
  • lkjohnson1950: It was working fine by yesterday PM, about 10 hours after I first got it.
    October 26, 2018, 03:48:36 PM
  • Wizzo: I cannot recreate the error that you are seeing but I have replaced the file that would cause the error. Please try again and let me know how you get on.
    October 26, 2018, 12:13:28 PM
  • Wizzo: I'm looking into this at the moment. Thanks
    October 26, 2018, 11:50:19 AM
  • lkjohnson1950: Hey Wiz, when I try to post a new topic or reply to an old one, I get a screen that says parse error.
    October 25, 2018, 04:12:09 AM
  • Dare: way to go Kimi
    October 21, 2018, 11:31:06 PM

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 75
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

* Top Posters

cosworth151 cosworth151
15199 Posts
Scott Scott
13862 Posts
Dare Dare
12306 Posts
John S John S
10067 Posts
Ian Ian
9679 Posts

* IntentsGP Advert

pre-erected f1 camping & glamping with intentsGP

Author Topic: Will big auto makers stay in F1 post 2020?  (Read 907 times)

Offline John S

Will big auto makers stay in F1 post 2020?
« on: May 29, 2019, 12:57:04 PM »
  • Publish
  • Surely this must be a big complicating factor in the Liberty/FIA/Teams negotiations over the next F1 contracts and rules for 2021 and beyond.

    In his Racefans.net article Dieter Rencken gives compelling reasons why the Auto makers might pull the plug.
     
    Warning! Its a long read to get to the heart of his reasoning, but it's worth it. 

    https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/29/the-storm-brewing-amid-f1s-2021-rules-wrangle/


    Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

    Offline Jericoke

    Re: Will big auto makers stay in F1 post 2020?
    « Reply #1 on: May 29, 2019, 03:53:03 PM »
  • Publish
  • Certainly 'manufacturer' involvement comes and goes in cycles in F1.  I think the car companies are playing this smart by getting ahead of the next 'bust' cycle, and, I agree, there will be an effect on involvement in F1.  It's hard to lay people off, and then have a portable entertainment suite with pool side wet bars.

    F1 needs to roll with modern automotive technology and start involving the non-standard car companies.  Uber, Google and Apple want to show they're serious about cars, why can't they get involved in top tier racing?

    Offline Alianora La Canta

    Re: Will big auto makers stay in F1 post 2020?
    « Reply #2 on: May 29, 2019, 05:34:38 PM »
  • Publish
  • jericoke, that's a good question, and I think it says a lot about the modern sponsorship tableau that each appears to be a bad fit for a F1 team for quite different reasons. On the other hand, Uber seems more likely to me to spring for Indycar series sponsorship than F1's because it's more American-based, rather than global-based, in its formal advertising preferences. (Everywhere else, they seem largely dependent on word-of-mouth... ...which is of course free!)

    Google isn't interested because they'd generally be expected to put logos on (because teams use the sponsors they have to attract other sponsors). This is against Google policy - they only approve the use of their own logo on platforms they actually own. If they decided to make their own racing league, then you might see a Google team, but unless they buy F1 from Liberty, we won't see Google sponsorship there. The most that could be hoped for is for someone to be a Google partner, but that doesn't generally require money to change hands (simply attribution for the use of a Google product in developing something), thus not interesting to a F1 team's money-raising.

    Uber, on the other hand, is heavily interested in sponsorships. Its current #1 focus on that score is primary sponsorship of NCAA (America's college athletics system). That might well be a bigger draw in the specific 16-25 American demographic than F1, and it's almost certainly cheaper than being a sponsor of F1 as a whole (which is what would be necessary to have equivalent breadth of coverage). Liberty might find Uber an interesting prospect, but I don't think Uber would settle for a F1 team. If it goes for motorsport at all, it'll want to sponsor the entire series.

    Apple is different again. The parent company deliberately looks for a relatively small number of adverts, but places them in large and creative ways. F1 is... ...not noted for its creativity, and generally associated with PC sponsorships (especially given that F1 teams tend to be Windows and/or Linux (usually a mix of both), not MacOS, because the specialist software the teams use tend to be Windows and/or Linux). The increase in mobile phone working tends to be platform-agnostic, and since F1 doesn't use it for secure data processing like some companies do (the secure data tends to need a bigger bandwidth than mobile can do right now), bring-your-own-device, with apps that work on the major platform options, is what tends to get seen.

    While a creative F1 team might be able to entice Apple despite all that, it would require a lot of luck, because their brand of creativity would need to fit in with their vision for the next line of product. Most Apple ads you see are actually from local or national Apple dealer networks. However, most of them simply don't have the budget to do F1.

    In other words, Google is a bad fit for F1 teams because it doesn't do sponsorships.
    Uber is a bad fit for F1 teams because they're too small in scale.
    Apple is a bad fit for F1 teams, as they're seen as conventional and have relatively little use for Apple product - or just plain too expensive, depending which part of Apple marketing is the target.
    Percussus resurgio
    @lacanta (Twitter)
    http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

    Offline Jericoke

    Re: Will big auto makers stay in F1 post 2020?
    « Reply #3 on: May 29, 2019, 08:58:23 PM »
  • Publish
  • jericoke, that's a good question, and I think it says a lot about the modern sponsorship tableau that each appears to be a bad fit for a F1 team for quite different reasons.

    Not really disagreeing with your sentiments as a whole, just picking some examples.

    I'm suggesting that if Waymo (Google's subsidiary) wants to be seen as serious in the car business, that they could get involved in F1 (and that F1 should look to partner with car companies focusing on innovation to provide that platform).  The same idea for Apple.  I'm not suggesting a car with an iPhone sticker, but rather a car that features Apple automotive technology.

    As for Uber... Bernie was very good at convincing people with a lot of money that buying an F1 team was the cool thing for Billionaires to do.  I would see it more along the lines of Force India or Red Bull racing: a vanity project that happens to show that Uber is a serious 'car' company.

    There are other niches, like Haas as a tooling supplier.  I'm sure Gene has competitors who could use the profile F1 brings.  (I would love more owners like Gene, who understand that the sport is a long game that requires patience, and not just an excuse to splash cash around)

    Offline John S

    Re: Will big auto makers stay in F1 post 2020?
    « Reply #4 on: May 29, 2019, 09:23:04 PM »
  • Publish
  • Its fine talking about tech companies and their possible involvement with F1 but will they want to purchase the teams off the Auto makers if they drop out. so how do Liberty/FIA ensure a full or even larger grid in future?

    My own thinking has been along the lines of allowing big budget teams to sell chassis to other teams with the proviso that they run different engines to the original builder. The upside is extra money for Macca, RBR or Williams & some OEMs can remain selling their engines into F1 even after leaving as team owners. Most of the investment has been done as engine regs will remain mostly the same after 2020.

    Cost cap should aid the start up from new players, but the rules must be more flexible allowing others to buy cars to run in the series - just like we used to have in the 50&60s.

     
    Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

    Offline Jericoke

    Re: Will big auto makers stay in F1 post 2020?
    « Reply #5 on: May 30, 2019, 03:20:01 PM »
  • Publish
  • Its fine talking about tech companies and their possible involvement with F1 but will they want to purchase the teams off the Auto makers if they drop out. so how do Liberty/FIA ensure a full or even larger grid in future?

    My own thinking has been along the lines of allowing big budget teams to sell chassis to other teams with the proviso that they run different engines to the original builder. The upside is extra money for Macca, RBR or Williams & some OEMs can remain selling their engines into F1 even after leaving as team owners. Most of the investment has been done as engine regs will remain mostly the same after 2020.

    Cost cap should aid the start up from new players, but the rules must be more flexible allowing others to buy cars to run in the series - just like we used to have in the 50&60s.

    Along those lines, I'd allow 'new' teams to use completely customer parts.  Say a team's first three seasons they can use customer chassis etc.  After that, they'll have to start building their own.  True, there will be some teams that don't survive the transition from 'new' teams to full constructor, but it will be less risky to find investors to replace them too. 

    It also gives the buyers a chance to experience owning an F1 team without the headaches day one.  Right now the barrier to entry isn't just financial, but also organisational. 

    And as you point out, it provides a little extra revenue for constructors.