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Author Topic: Austrian GP  (Read 1123 times)

Offline Scott

Austrian GP
« on: June 29, 2019, 03:26:09 PM »
Leclerc clearly dominated the weekend so far, capping it off with pole position.  Well done.  Lewis seems pleased to have him on the front row. 

Austria is a track that really punishes driver mistakes and should make a fun race I think.  Punishing temperatures will test the tires as well.  I didn't check to see who is running what tomorrow, but I hope Leclerc is on Yellows.

Too bad for Vettel and Ferrari, but I don't think he had the pace to be closer than row 2 anyway.  If he doesn't make a stupid aggressive mistake in the first couple of laps, it could be fun to watch him carve through the field tomorrow.

Haas in P5 - wow, good job Magnussen!  Norris in 6th, another impressive show for McLaren.  Kimi and his Alfa team are having another good weekend as well.

Looking forward to the race tomorrow.  Unfortunately I will only be in chat for the first hour again. 

The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Jericoke

Re: Austrian GP
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2019, 05:04:44 PM »
I won't be near the TV, nor the internet (long weekend in Canada - I'm in Cottage Country)

I probably won't see the race until Tuesday or Wednesday (so I won't be around here for a while!)

Offline Scott

Re: Austrian GP
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2019, 05:10:46 PM »
I won't be near the TV, nor the internet (long weekend in Canada - I'm in Cottage Country)

Muskoka? Or east?  We had a place near Port Carling growing up...some of the best summers of my life.  Enjoy.  The Swiss go up high to escape the heat...they don't get the appeal of being able to literally jump in the water at any time of day.  Plus waterfront costs are probable double or triple that in Canada.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Dare

Re: Austrian GP
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2019, 11:26:00 PM »
I took a chance and picked Charles for pole. Could this be the
end of Ferrari Vettel Favoritism?
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."

Offline Scott

Re: Austrian GP
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2019, 12:17:17 AM »
I took a chance and picked Charles for pole. Could this be the
end of Ferrari Vettel Favoritism?

So did I  :P :P
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Irisado

Re: Austrian GP
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2019, 12:14:41 PM »
I'm pleased that Leclerc took pole as well, although I did not think that he would.  Last year both Mercedes had mechanical failures during the race, so let's see what happens this time.  Hopefully, this will become the first remotely decent race of 2019.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Scott

Re: Austrian GP
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2019, 06:13:28 PM »
Opinion on the Max vs Charles pass on lap 69.

It was dirty, but not worth penalizing.  Charles could have also held his line and forced Max to crash into him instead of making a last second veer into Max.  Then Max would have received and deserved a penalty.

Great win for Honda.  I didn’t think they would get the top step this year.  More black eye for Renault.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Dare

Re: Austrian GP
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2019, 06:20:00 PM »
The bad thing about it was Max was nearly a second
a lap faster,he could have waited for a better spot.

democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."

Offline John S

Re: Austrian GP
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2019, 10:08:15 AM »
The bad thing about it was Max was nearly a second
a lap faster,he could have waited for a better spot.

In fairness to Max Dare he had left lots of room the lap previous only to see Charles exploit Ferrari's superior engine power by out dragging him round the outside.

With Charles using the engine power and ERS strategically to blunt Max's chances, and the laps running down It was inevitable that Max would close him out when he got alongside like that. IMHO Charles hung on in there too long and caused his own problem, he was trying to do what he did the lap before and Max was wise to it.

This is very different to the Seb incident when the car in front caused the following car to brake and go off track. This time Charles could have braked and not gone off track.

I'm pretty sure the rule of leaving a car's width applies to the car in front being overtaken so Max's crime, if any was forcing him off track. I say Charles chose to keep his foot in rather than yielding so took himself off. It appears the Stewards agree too.   
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline rmassart

Re: Austrian GP
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2019, 10:35:37 AM »
This is my interpretation of the situation as well.  I didn't watch the race so don't know all the details, but from the highlights I felt Charles was very wide, and tried to cut in too late, but by then Max was well into the corner and simply held his line.  This is not the same as Canada where Vettel was re-adjusting his position the moment Hamilton was going to go round the outside. In addition Max hadn't just beforehand made a mistake and left the track. 

Why it took 3 hours to decide this is beyond me. I can't help feeling the discussions were more political than technical. As in "how do we dig our way out of this one with upsetting a minimum number of people".

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Austrian GP
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2019, 09:49:15 PM »
I do not think either driver was 100% innocent on this one. It looks like Max intended to do a Vettel-esque undercut that was more agressive than the lap 68 version (which might have worked, but Charles was wise to it and might have fended it off, just as Max was wise to Charles' tactic from the previous lap). However, Max missed his braking point. This forced him towards the outside, but not as far as Max made it look. I think he could have turned inwards more and still had position to prevent being re-passed, though I can hardly blame Max for not being confident of this.

Charles, who had presumably expected Max to hit his braking mark, was certainly not expecting Max to then widen out his line further than necessary. I'm not even convinced Charles needed to force Max to hit him to get the win in the stewards' room - driving out of the situation and rejoining behind Max would probably have netted Max a "crowding penalty". Unfortunately he decided, instead, to steer into Max, presumably to force Max to resume his proper line without damaging either car (an effective "re-route" would have required much more steering lock, but probably the Ferrari would have come off worse).

I don't think there was any way Charles could have kept Max behind him that corner on his own power - the Red Bull had been threatening to overpower the Ferrari for a couple of laps beforehand and it was even closer this time. I do think he could have won it in the stewards' office later (though that would be a sub-optimal way of taking one's maiden win).

My assumption was that the reasons for the stewarding decision needing 3 hours and 10 minutes were fourfold:

1) rmassart's point that the stewards were feeling under pressure due to the psuedopolitical nature of the situation, the fact they were at Max's team's home track and the part where a wrong move could inadvertently change the course of F1's next major driver rivalry. The explanation given did suggest to me a lot of thought got put into not upsetting people unnecessarily with the justification for the penalty.

3) In theory, if my understanding of the collision is correct, there was an alternative option option to the stewards of giving both drivers a 5-second penalty (Max for crowding and Charles for the "re-route"). This would quite literally have benefitted nobody - but to ensure that everyone understood that boundaries had been breached, a careful explanation to each driver of what needed to be done to prevent further visits to the stewards would have been necessary.

3) Following on from the previous point, Max and Charles both seem like the type to ask a ton of questions about minutae if they think this will help them (either directly, in that day's stewarding decision, or indirectly, in their upcoming duels), and unless the questions were inane or repetitive, the stewards would have probably wanted to give thorough answers to prevent future trouble,

4) According to Max's interview with Channel 4, Max and Charles used some of that time to clear the air between them - apparently they were on good terms with each other by the end of the stewards' meeting. Which is remarkable, given their previous history has been lousy (and when I say lousy... ...Max punched Charles at some point in their karting career. No idea why). As far as I'm concerned, if they've resolved to turn over a new leaf in their rivalry, that was worth waiting 3 hours and 10 minutes for in itself.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 09:57:29 PM by Alianora La Canta »
Percussus resurgio
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