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Author Topic: Monza  (Read 931 times)

Offline Scott

Monza
« on: September 07, 2019, 08:53:45 PM »
  • Publish
  • What was going on in Q3?  Everybody playing chicken and they all lost out.  Wonder what the investigation is going to result in.  I would give the pole to Sainz just to punish everyone for that stunt. 


    The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

    Offline Scott

    Re: Monza
    « Reply #1 on: September 07, 2019, 08:57:14 PM »
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  • https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/145847/stewards-urge-fia-to-find-rapid-fix-for-q3-queues

    I'm not sure I would put the blame on those three...anyone behind them could have passed and made it in plenty of time.  Sainz actually made it on to the final lap, so he technically did nothing wrong.
    The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

    Offline Jericoke

    Re: Monza
    « Reply #2 on: September 07, 2019, 10:40:47 PM »
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  • Honestly, I think this is the biggest embarrassment to F1 since the 2005 US Grand Prix.

    All 9 drivers and their teams are culpable.  Sainz played the game perfectly, but to no avail.  He doesn't deserve a penalty any more than the other 8.

    The obvious fix is the aero situation.  They need to make it so following an F1 car is identical to being in clean air.  It will encourage passing on race day, and make this 'tow' idea redundant.  If that means ground effects in place of aero, I'm on board.

    Offline Robem64

    Re: Monza
    « Reply #3 on: September 08, 2019, 09:09:02 AM »
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  • Wasn't Sainz guilty of travelling slowly at the beginning of the lap - it's just the fact that he made the dash slightly earlier and managed to get over the line to be able to complete a lap. In effect, you could argue he was more culpable in holding others up to then be the only driver to be able to complete a lap. You can see how that could be a big problem. Just offering an alternative POV.
    "I'm not a pessimist, I'm an optimist with experience"

    Offline Jericoke

    Re: Monza
    « Reply #4 on: September 08, 2019, 11:24:54 AM »
  • Publish
  • Wasn't Sainz guilty of travelling slowly at the beginning of the lap - it's just the fact that he made the dash slightly earlier and managed to get over the line to be able to complete a lap. In effect, you could argue he was more culpable in holding others up to then be the only driver to be able to complete a lap. You can see how that could be a big problem. Just offering an alternative POV.

    8 other F1 drivers couldn't pass him?  He wasn't weaving or blocking. 

    Then the problem is the track design if it's impossible to pass a car going 'too slowly', and Monza needs to be scrapped.

    Offline John S

    Re: Monza
    « Reply #5 on: September 08, 2019, 01:07:33 PM »
  • Publish

  • 8 other F1 drivers couldn't pass him?  He wasn't weaving or blocking. 

    Then the problem is the track design if it's impossible to pass a car going 'too slowly', and Monza needs to be scrapped.

    Oh but there was blocking, at certain points there were two cars side by side running slow, Sainz was certainly as involved in that as anyone else.
    Monza is quite a narrow track and getting free from these slow cars in front was not easy, no one in the front of the queue wanted to get going properly.

    The Monza Stewards are now saying the FIA will have to change the Quali rules to give them any chance stopping repeats, or for policing this sort of craziness properly.
    Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

    Offline Scott

    Re: Monza
    « Reply #6 on: September 08, 2019, 02:02:00 PM »
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  • Everyone was waiting for the tow that never appeared.  Even Vettel eluded to it after Q that it was his turn to get a tow from Leclerc, but Leclerc, even though he absolutely had opportunity to pass Sainz easily, still held back.  Missing the green flag meant nothing to him other than securing the pole.

    Here's an easy fix.  In a situation when there is only time for one flying lap, any driver without a technical fault who does not take the green flag will be penalised 20 grid positions...thereby putting any from the top ten who held back, in the last ten grid positions. 

    My point earlier is that I don't think only 3 drivers should have been penalised, I think none or all 9 (excluding Sainz, who technically timed it perfectly for himself) should have been.
    The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

    Offline cosworth151

    Re: Monza
    « Reply #7 on: September 08, 2019, 03:46:57 PM »
  • Publish
  • A very good race. Leclerc now lead Vettel in the points standings. Leclerc ran a very good race. Seb looked terrible. Could this be the changing of the guard?
    ďYou can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.Ē
    ― Bob Dylan

    Offline Dare

    Re: Monza
    « Reply #8 on: September 08, 2019, 03:52:12 PM »
  • Publish
  • A very good race. Leclerc now lead Vettel in the points standings. Leclerc ran a very good race. Seb looked terrible. Could this be the changing of the guard?
    [/quote


    I wonder what Vettel's thoughts are? Could he be ready to hang
    it up especially if Ferrari let's him go. It happened to Michael and
    if I recall he had a better season then than Vettel is now. Maybe he
    timed it just right when the RB was unbeatable and he was giver
    #1 favoritism
    "The
    democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
    who are
    willing to work and give to those who would not."
    --
    Thomas
    Jefferson

    Offline rmassart

    Re: Monza
    « Reply #9 on: September 09, 2019, 06:05:42 AM »
  • Publish
  • I missed the race, but saw the highlights. Regarding the Leclerc - Hamilton incidents. The first one where Leclerc edged Hamilton off the track, was harsh and possibly against the rules, but I am not sure Hamilton was fast enough to get by anyway. It would have been difficult.

    But I don't understand why there aren't more complaints about the incident where Leclerc cut the chicane and the changed position at least twice in the run up to the next corner. Surely cutting the chicane should have meant he had to let Hamilton past. But then going on to weave all over the track is clearly against the rules.

    Offline Scott

    Re: Monza
    « Reply #10 on: September 09, 2019, 09:38:00 AM »
  • Publish
  • Totally agree.  I counted at least three moves leading up to the corner and nothing was said.  Cutting the chicane was also questionable.  He paid for it in carbon fiber, but there is certainly a case that he gained an advantage.

    Donít get me wrong, Iím thrilled that Leclerc won Monza in a Ferrari, but Hamilton had him under pressure the entire race and perhaps other drivers would have received something other than the black/white flag.
    The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

    Offline rmassart

    Re: Monza
    « Reply #11 on: September 09, 2019, 01:01:18 PM »
  • Publish
  • ...and perhaps other drivers would have received something other than the black/white flag.

    A Ferrari leading at Monza, is never going to get even a 5s penalty in my opinion. I don't understand the point of a black/white flag. Especially since it had no effect when a few laps later his actions were equally borderline and nothing happened.  F1 is not football, where it makes sense to get a caution, before you're dismissed. But in F1 chances are few and far between. If you deserve a penalty, it needs to be given. But in this case nothing... what's the point???

    In fact it's interesting, because I think even if Lewis had passed him, Leclerc would have had a good chance to get back at him later in the race, given Lewis's tire degradation towards the end.

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    Re: Monza
    « Reply #12 on: September 09, 2019, 01:13:53 PM »
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  • I believe I am a true enthusiast and speak with no bias - LeClerc should have been penalised twice; first for 'crowding' Hamilton off the track and second for leaving the track and gaining an advantage.
    There was a death last week and a horrendous crash (F3) this week and yet the FIA allow a young driver to flout the rules in a dangerous manner twice without any penalty. Even their explanation was ridiculous - 'if there had been contact we would have imposed a greater penalty'. This is a bit like saying 'if Hamilton had died we would have taken a different view'!!!
    Yes I really do believe he only got away with this because he was in a scarlet car at Monza. It was dangerous, unnecessary and robbed us of potentially even better racing (the Ferrari was so fast I have to believe Leclerc would have overtaken Hamilton at the very next DRS zone).
    I have said many times that if we must persist with tracks that have run-off where there used to be barriers or gravel traps, then the rules should be; if you leave the track to make, or maintain, a position you must immediately drop behind the other driver.

    Offline John S

    Re: Monza
    « Reply #13 on: September 09, 2019, 02:13:42 PM »
  • Publish
  • I have to agree with the sentiments expressed on here about Leclerc's moves on track, however I have to praise Lewis for avoiding the contact at the chicane and running wide on to the grass - a proper champion's response - instead of banging wheels and maybe other things.

    I see Lewis himself has admitted he might have acted differently if he was not in championship winning position.
    You have to stay in it to win it!

    Really pleased with the Renault's, both Danny and Nico worked their socks off all race long, and the weekend, to get a really good finish. Sure a bit of luck came there way but you have to be able to capitalise when the chances fall for you.

    I guess we'll remember Monza for demonstrating why Lewis and Charles are the clear No 1 drivers in their teams at the moment - as if we needed any confirmation.  :D   
    Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

    Offline Jericoke

    Re: Monza
    « Reply #14 on: September 09, 2019, 03:35:11 PM »
  • Publish
  • It was a good F1 race.  Monza certainly puts on a good stage, and the players stepped up.

    Monza and Spa both show you don't need 'tight twisty bits' to put on a good race.