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Author Topic: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits  (Read 1173 times)

Offline monty

Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2020, 09:07:42 AM »
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Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2020, 11:16:18 AM »

Quote
My generation and the one coming through are also more aware of the number of people who actually get hurt by many of the things that are called "jokes".

I know this topic is a minefield and nothing to do with F1. Unless you have ever been the minority at the end of the 'joke' I guess you have no idea of how hurtful it might be. For that reason I fully support better diversity and understanding. My problem is that the protests are having the negative effect of actually causing racism! Many people have interpreted 'Black Lives Matter' as meaning 'Black Lives Matter more than any other colour' - of course that wasn't the intention but it is what is happening. Then there is the ludicrous attack on history. Slavery was abhorrent but it is history, it happened, it has made the World what it is today - nobody knows how the World would be if it hadn't happened and none of it was the fault of today's generation. How far back do we allow things to offend us - the Vikings raped and pillaged the indigenous English; the Moors wiped out whole civilisations; the Romans enslaved every nation they conquered ; etc. It's History and can't be rewritten!
I am more than happy with the F1 approach of WeRaceAsOne - it hopefully stands for equality irrespective of Gender, Race or Ability.

Offline cosworth151

Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2020, 02:47:07 PM »
Autoweek says that Mercedes ran with their engines at a lower power setting to keep the heat down.

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a33237820/the-verdict-is-in-heres-why-there-was-so-much-attrition-during-f1-austrian-grand-prix/
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Jericoke

Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2020, 06:22:16 PM »
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Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2020, 11:16:18 AM »

Quote
My generation and the one coming through are also more aware of the number of people who actually get hurt by many of the things that are called "jokes".

I know this topic is a minefield and nothing to do with F1. Unless you have ever been the minority at the end of the 'joke' I guess you have no idea of how hurtful it might be. For that reason I fully support better diversity and understanding. My problem is that the protests are having the negative effect of actually causing racism! Many people have interpreted 'Black Lives Matter' as meaning 'Black Lives Matter more than any other colour' - of course that wasn't the intention but it is what is happening. Then there is the ludicrous attack on history. Slavery was abhorrent but it is history, it happened, it has made the World what it is today - nobody knows how the World would be if it hadn't happened and none of it was the fault of today's generation. How far back do we allow things to offend us - the Vikings raped and pillaged the indigenous English; the Moors wiped out whole civilisations; the Romans enslaved every nation they conquered ; etc. It's History and can't be rewritten!
I am more than happy with the F1 approach of WeRaceAsOne - it hopefully stands for equality irrespective of Gender, Race or Ability.

So, the deal with statues/hero worship of flawed figures is complicated, of course.

In the USA many of the statues being torn down were nominally built as memorials, but that's not what their intention was.  When the Confederate States lost, they were embarrassed by their defeat.  They never celebrated it, they never had a 'culture' or 'heritage' of celebrating the people that lead to them being humiliated.  What the statues represented was power.  The generation that had grown up with the humiliation of treating slaves and their descendants as people could not bear it, and they're the ones who started putting up statues, saying it wasn't always like this.  Once upon a time 'brave' men stood up for oppression, and they longed for more brave men to stand up to the oppression of not being allowed to oppress anyone.

Now, once anger at these particular monuments grew, people started to wonder about statues/worship of other people who thought nothing of oppressing human beings.  Statues of Washington, John A MacDonald (our own Canadian hero/monster) and Columbus seem like they're fair game, even though they were never put up to commemorate the awful things they did, but rather the great things they did.  It's certainly dicier to try to decide WHY a statue was put up, but it was an open secret that the Confederate Statues were basically burning crosses to let the former slaves know that it could happen again.  From there, it's easy to pile on and show how progressive you are.

Columbus himself is interesting, as he was turned into a hero to FIGHT racism.  When Italians were immigrating to America they were seen as worthless.  They pointed out that an Italian had discovered America, and gosh darn it, if you want to celebrate America, you HAD to celebrate Italians.  (They even got Washington Irving, the famous writer, to create Columbus' back story.)  Up until then, no one cared about Columbus, and if you said he was a slave trading demon, anyone would have agreed.


Offline Andy B

Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2020, 08:34:52 AM »
Interestingly how many US Presidents were involved with slavery?
Surely its not a case of being selective over what the protesters protest about?
I'm of the opinion that rather than remove these statues they should have plaques that state why the statues were erected but also what else they were involved with.
From my perspective they were different times which does not make them right but you cannot cleanse history and removing it means future generations cannot learn from it.
As Jeri said its all controversial but if its not talked about it'll get lost again.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2020, 09:49:52 AM »
Unfortunately, if you remove all the racists and slave owners from American history, you remove most of American history.  We, as a nation, need to come to grips with the reality that though our Founding Fathers may have been exceptional in many ways, they were still human and far from perfect.
Lonny

Offline cosworth151

Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2020, 01:59:24 PM »
Jefferson originally had an anti slavery clause in the Declaration of Independence. The southern states refused to pass the Declaration until it was removed.

This whole thing over here reminds me of a scene from one of my favorite films, 1776. John Adams asks Franklin what history will think of them. He replies, "Who will they think we were? Demigods? We're men, no more, no less. Trying to start a new nation against far greater odds than a more generous God would have allowed."
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

 


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