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Author Topic: Planned protest at British GP  (Read 465 times)

Offline Dare



"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline John S

Re: Planned protest at British GP
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2020, 10:57:47 AM »
Think that Liberty has realised the drivers 'End Racism' half-cocked showing in Hungary makes a mockery of their own 'We race as One' message so they've made time for a proper procedure.

Lewis seems to be on his own mission to get all drivers to kneel, not sure he'll succeed with that.
He's also wants maximum impact from his home race in the media, he'll get that anyway.   
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Jericoke

Re: Planned protest at British GP
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2020, 01:17:33 PM »
It's a tricky thing for sure.  Forcing the drivers to do it will feel unathentic, similarly, spending too much time on it will feel like noise to fans.

On the other hand, it IS important, and I feel that if things don't change for the better, more attention is required.  F1 won't solve society by themselves, but they can be a voice that makes a difference.

Offline Ian

Re: Planned protest at British GP
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2020, 07:03:27 AM »
The only person who I would kneel to would be Her Majesty. I personally think it's racist to white people. What about kneeling for the policeman who was dragged for over a mile to his death by the scum stealing a quad bike, of course not, he was white. Sorry if this seems too political but I have strong feeling over this. ALL LIVES MATTER.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline Robem64

Re: Planned protest at British GP
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2020, 08:11:58 AM »
The only person who I would kneel to would be Her Majesty. I personally think it's racist to white people. What about kneeling for the policeman who was dragged for over a mile to his death by the scum stealing a quad bike, of course not, he was white. Sorry if this seems too political but I have strong feeling over this. ALL LIVES MATTER.

Totally agree  :good:
"I'm not a pessimist, I'm an optimist with experience"

Online lkjohnson1950

Re: Planned protest at British GP
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2020, 09:47:55 AM »
All they are saying is that blacks are disproportionately met with violence at the hands of the police. The guy in Minnesota was accused of passing a counterfeit 20. 4 cops wrestled him down and one knelt on his neck for 9+ minutes while he slowly choked to death. It's unlikely he would have been treated the same way if he was white. There is a long list of POC who have suffered similarly. The white kid who killed 9+ in a church was taken to lunch before he was taken to jail. Protesters are asking that blacks are not automatically treated with violence. Seems reasonable.
Lonny

Offline monty

Re: Planned protest at British GP
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2020, 04:51:13 PM »
Quote
All they are saying is that blacks are disproportionately met with violence at the hands of the police. The guy in Minnesota was accused of passing a counterfeit 20. 4 cops wrestled him down and one knelt on his neck for 9+ minutes while he slowly choked to death. It's unlikely he would have been treated the same way if he was white. There is a long list of POC who have suffered similarly. The white kid who killed 9+ in a church was taken to lunch before he was taken to jail. Protesters are asking that blacks are not automatically treated with violence. Seems reasonable.

Just to be clear (as I have commented elsewhere) I am not a racist - one of my best and oldest friends has Jamaican roots; another close family friend has family links to Barbados and I have many friends and close colleagues of various ethnic backgrounds. I find it difficult to comment on this subject without feeling that I may be judged or misunderstood. Equally, I find it hard not to at least offer some balance to the comments.
What happened to George Floyd was horrible and disproportionate but we should not forget he was a lifelong criminal with convictions for some horrendous crimes, plus he was trying to avoid arrest. There is no question that a dodgy officer kneeling on his neck triggered his death but actually (as far as I understand) he died of other causes connected to his overall state of health. Finally, in my opinion, I think the same could have happened to a white man under the same circumstances.
My problem with BLM is that they have no clear mandate. Their suggestion that 'people of colour' do not have the same opportunities as white people and I feel that this is probably true (although I still dislike the reference to 'Black'). But other BLM issues such as blaming today's white people for historic slavery, and trying to suggest that problems with education, employment, social deprivation, etc., etc. is all a conscious act of discrimination really annoys me.
In the USA and UK many black people excel in life. However, there is no doubt that black people are disproportionately likely to fail to get good school grades, fail to move to higher education, fail to get high power jobs and get in trouble with the law. But I do not accept it is just because they are black. It is because they will historically be from poorer families and may live in more deprived areas, which in turn makes them more likely to revolt at school, get involved in gangs and turn to crime, etc. Society is to blame but it is ridiculous to think that discrimination solely based on colour is widely prevalent (yes of course it happens but here in the UK laws and social conscience makes such bias rare).
So, as I have said before, I think BLM is actually counter productive. The name is wrong and the message is wrong. F1's message of 'We Race As One' is an example of a more inclusive headline. I fully support diversity but I wish we could drop the focus on 'Black'.

Offline Dare

Re: Planned protest at British GP
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2020, 10:23:27 PM »
All people in the US have the same opportunities. If
they want to pursue it there's no one saying no you
can't. I found if your stopped by the police and obey
their order the likelihood of you being harmed drop immensely.
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline Jericoke

Re: Planned protest at British GP
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2020, 02:05:43 PM »
All people in the US have the same opportunities. If
they want to pursue it there's no one saying no you
can't. I found if your stopped by the police and obey
their order the likelihood of you being harmed drop immensely.

That's demonstrably false.  The current president of the United States of America is on record of not allowing black people to live in properties he owns.  It seems unlikely he's an outlier. It's not an issue for our grandparents, or even parents.  It's an issue for people alive today.

What makes it so insidious, is that most 'average' people aren't really in a position to be racist, so it doesn't really matter if 99% of us are decent fair minded people if the 1% who aren't are the '1%' who control everything. 

The best we can do is take power away from those who have it, and wield it in an 'evil' way.  (Be that discrimination, labour conditions, living conditions etc.)  It's not easy, and it takes a united front.

Offline rmassart

Re: Planned protest at British GP
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2020, 06:28:22 PM »
All people in the US have the same opportunities.

This might be true, but they don't all have the same tools with which to make use of those opportunities. I always think back to this image when talking about equal opportunities.



Things should not just be equal, they need to be equitable as well.

Offline Dare

Re: Planned protest at British GP
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2020, 12:03:17 AM »
The opportunities are there if you really want
them. If you want to stay in a bad environment
all the protesting in the world won't help. I guess
if more underprivileged individuals like Hamilton or other
sports millionaires we'd all be saved.
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline Andy B

Re: Planned protest at British GP
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2020, 11:28:24 PM »
LH grew up in Stevenage a town just 8 miles from where I lived, I worked with a guy who's son went to school with LH and he has told me a few tales of the racial abuse LH received whilst at school which was not helped by his successful karting activities but this is not a tale of privilege as his father worked two or more jobs to fund the racing.
So I understand why he has a passion for this cause.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline monty

Re: Planned protest at British GP
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2020, 09:09:29 AM »
We lived in Stevenage although we moved away before my kids met Lewis at school. Both of my kids raced Lewis in Karting. My kids are one year older and one year younger than Lewis so they met him in Cadet Class and TKM100 - oh, and they both beat him (at least once  :D).
Lewis was a class driver even at a young age but he also had a fantastically prepared Kart. In the early years I stood next to Anthony Hamilton at Rye House and complimented him on Lewis and the Kart and asked him what he thought it was costing to make Lewis so competitive. He answered with an exact monthly amount - which I think was £525. My mortgage at the time was £550 per month. He then went on to explain that he held more than one job and spent 'every spare penny' on Lewis' career. I had one job and spent any spare money on family holidays, things in the house, etc.
We saw Lewis through the following years and remember when he started to get McLaren sponsorship. I was at Rye House struggling to get my kids Kart off the roof rack when Lewis turned up with an RV, a team truck and several engineers. Him and his father worked for that level of success - it didn't come from any level of privilege.
One thing I would say - I never witnessed Lewis or his family suffer any level of racism at the Kart tracks. I have always felt that grass root motor sport has one of the friendliest groups of people you will ever meet.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Planned protest at British GP
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2020, 11:28:07 AM »
It's quite a problem (aside from the part where in my area of the UK, permission to have a second job is itself considered a privilege - one that none of my employers have ever afforded me, but at least two did afford to other people - so Lewis' upbringing already manages to send out mixed messages on the topic).

Ghettoisation (which happens in most developed countries) mean "staying in bad environments" is often forced on discriminated people, and intersectionality means it's forced more strongly onto people who are discriminated against for multiple reasons.

Take my hometown as an example of how this maps to race. There are three distinct sections of the main part - a relatively affluent western part (of which I am one of the few remaining "typically minimum-wage workers"), a moderate eastern side with a mixture of impoverished and middle-class people as neighbours, and an impoverished central part, with awful housing that few voluntarily choose to inhabit (I was required to test out one of the houses at one point, and got wedged on the staircase because the design was so bad).

There are exactly two non-white families in the western part, as far as I can tell. (It's compact enough that a casual check is feasible, but of course I could have missed some). Quite a few non-white families live in the moderate part, about what one would expect for the regional demographic. Nearly everyone who lives in the impoverished part is Asian, with black people making maybe 8-10% of the cohort, and the occasional white person moved in under the compulsory homeless housing laws.

Some key information here: Rent in the impoverished part of town is usually £150 a month cheaper than the moderate part for a 1-bed flat (it's not now, because it's so undesirable that the council's using that area - including its private housing - for the homeless anti-COVID housing scheme, as the government's about to cease paying for hotels to be used that way). The impoverished part has few properties larger than this, though in some cases whole families are living in 1-bedroom flats due to lack of affordable alternatives. It's also accessible to the town centre even for people with mobility problems or unable to use public transport.

The moderate part of town is about £75 a month cheaper than the affluent part (so there's a £225 a month between the impoverished and affluent parts of town) for a 1-bed flat (the difference for 3-bedroom houses is around £250 a month; 2-bed flats aren't a thing in the moderate part of town, and 4+-bed accommodation is a law unto itself in my hometown). Also, the moderate part of town has public transport to town centre and the affluent part does not (meaning people must either walk into town to access it, or have a car. There are more electric car charging ports (3) than secure cycling points (1) and many rented houses around here forbid non-folding bikes for that reason). Given there are few employers in the affluent part of town (I'm here because I worked at one until it moved last year), this means most people in the affluent part of town also have considerably more enforced transport costs. (Yes, I live in a place where car ownership is considered a luxury).

I have worked at 2 employers that engaged in postcode hiring. One did it because they thought they were above the law in many aspects and thought the best people lived at the "best" addresses; the other because their insurance company would not allow business laptop insurance to any laptop in the impoverished part of town due to the known heightened risk of crime. (The latter employer ran the same postcode check on hires that didn't get laptops, but told everyone about why the policy existed because they didn't like it either, but corporate further up the chain wouldn't pay more for a fairer insurer "due to the security risk". They never told us who the insurer was).

£225 a month, in case you are wondering, is about a week's wages at full-time minimum wage. That's just for the premium, not counting the cost of getting a rental in the first place.

In short, people who are discriminated against really don't get the same opportunities as everyone else. It's just hidden better than it used to be.

(On a related note, a good starting point for getting more BAME (black/Asian/minority ethnic people into motorsport would be to make every venue easily accessible by public transport or subsidised transport, especially at weekends. A lot of people can't even get to the venues to try their hand at racing...)
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline John S

Re: Planned protest at British GP
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2020, 11:59:21 AM »
It's quite a problem (aside from the part where in my area of the UK, permission to have a second job is itself considered a privilege - one that none of my employers have ever afforded me, but at least two did afford to other people - so Lewis' upbringing already manages to send out mixed messages on the topic).


Just to pick you up on that point Alia, employers cannot as a matter of course prevent you from doing other jobs unless they can show your performance whilst working for them is, or is likely to be detrimentally effected or it may harm your main employers business - eg. you use sensitive knowledge gained to benefit a competitor.

They may try to enforce the 48hour working week rule, but you can avoid this by opting out with the 2nd employer.

The only other scenario where 2nd or even 3rd jobs cannot be undertaken is when job specific contracts prohibit some or all other employment because of conflict of interest, these mostly prohibit jobs with competitors, or in similar areas of work, or for security and public trust reasons - like the Police.
 
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

 


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