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Author Topic: Is Hamilton the best  (Read 5183 times)

Offline Willy

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2020, 07:42:23 PM »
I don't feel 2020 should be thought of as anything other then a physically fanless season as the teams and drivers are still working as hard, or harder then normal to put a race on the track.  No need to think any results will be tainted with half-measures.
I did not stsrt out to be, but became a Lewis fan and how could you not be. Lewis is everything you want in a sports hero.
He has amazing skills and is a great sportsman. He does not make dirty moves or expect any advantage from being who he is. He gives praise to others easily when they beat him on track and always thanks the team first for his result.
I can't say all of those things about Schumacher...in fact I would say the opposite is true more then not.
That said, I can't wait to have Schumacher's name erased from the top of all lists and replaced by Lewis Hamilton.

Offline Andy B

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2020, 10:03:49 PM »
It's not just Schumacher Willy Senna had his issues too.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2020, 02:00:56 AM »
It's a shame that so many measure greatness by most wins, most poles, most podiums, etc. It's not a level playing field. In Clark's, Hill's and Surtees' era there were only 9 or 10 races in a season. In Stewart's or Rindt's only 15 or so. For Moss, Clark or Stewart to win 70 races would have been impossible. Then there are the issues of reliability and safety. How many races might Moss have won if he hadn't crashed? How many might Clark or Rindt have won if they hadn't been killed? I have never rated Schumacher very highly. He was a hard worker but Ferrari had resources no other team had, including a private test track. And he was not a sportsman. I stopped rating Senna when he deliberately crashed out Prost in Japan. You probably know I am a die hard Clark fan, but I do think Lewis is far more deserving than Michael, so good luck to him.
Lonny

Offline rwier

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2020, 08:04:03 PM »
From Wikipedia:
Stirling Moss won 212 of the 529 races he entered across several categories of competition, and has been described as "the greatest driver never to win the World Championship". In a seven-year span between 1955 and 1961 Moss finished as championship runner-up four times and in third place the other three times.
_________________________________________________________________________
I'm 80 years old, and I don't believe it ever got fixed in my mind (until now) that Moss never won a championship. Always thought he was the best, lol.

Offline Monty

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2020, 01:23:10 PM »
I just do not subscribe to the 'best of all time' comparisons. In F1 the cars, the competitors, the race conditions, etc. all had a massive effect on who did well at any given time. When it comes to drivers like Schumacher you also have to consider how brilliant he was at 'politics' - just read the biographies of some of his team mates to see how he held other great drivers back!
You could argue that the bravest drivers won back in the '60s but that would not necessarily say they were the best drivers. When I raced Superbikes I was on the podium in all of the dry races I entered. I never made a podium in a wet race. I had more Championship points than the guys that beat me in wet races but does that mean I was a better rider?
I think there are cases for so many 'best driver' suggestions at different periods through the years - Fangio, Brabham, Surtees (high on my list because he also won 4 World Motorcycle Championships), Graham Hill, Jim Clark (obviously!), Jackie Stewart (because he won in an awful car), James Hunt (because he was James Hunt!!), Lauda, Nelson Piquet, our Nigel Mansell (he won against the likes of Piquet, Senna, Prost & Schumacher plus he also won the CART championship), Damon Hill (he started late, he is a really nice guy, he raced in the Senna, Schumacher era; he beat Prost, Senna and Mansell in the same car, etc.)
Hamilton definitely has a strong case for being one of the very best - but not necessarily any better than many of the above.

Offline rmassart

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2020, 04:19:28 PM »
I started following F1 in the mid 80s and was Mansell fan until he retired. Of course, that made me hate Senna in my teens. But now my view has changed and I feel he was the last driver who really lived and breathes F1. Maybe Hamilton comes close now, but I can't remember anyone else in between the two with such an "aura" about them. Maybe I am being sentimental and I certainly am not saying he was the best ever. That's a tricky one to answer.

As for Senna being a dirty driver at times. True, but there seemed to be a lot more politics involved in those days between drivers and the FIA I think. I think the teams keep their drivers on a much tighter leash than they used to.

For example, in Suzuka I remember Senna wanted the the pole sitter to start on the racing line, which makes sense as it is cleaner. This was granted, but then changed by Balestre who for sure had a much friendlier relationship with Prost than Senna. I think that was one of the reasons Senna crashed into Prost - he felt he was fighting Prost as well as the powers that be.

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2020, 06:36:09 PM »
True. Senna didn't like Prost, but his real problem was with JMB and he never tried to hide it. But deliberately causing an accident amounts to assault. They both made harmless trips into the runoff area, but it was pure luck that neither of them was injured. If he did that today I think they would throw the book at him, with fines, points deductions, suspensions, etc. He got off with no penalty and was awarded the WDC.   :nono:
Lonny

Offline Willy

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2020, 07:08:55 PM »
Up until the late 80's in Canada we did not get anything in the way of F1 races on TV unless they were carried by an American broadcaster and then it was only the Monaco GP once a year.
As such no other info was available about other races unless you searched the info out via a sports page in a newspaper and only then, if they mentioned it.
I knew who Jim Clarke was as I had a cousin who followed his career and I enjoyed watching Sir Jackie when he raced Monaco.
Senna died before I started watching F1 as much as I could with limited Tv coverage.
SPEED TV in the states picked up the BBC feed and broadcast that until the Bernie sold the rights to SKY (I think) and the coverage dropped off over here. Then Canada's TSN picked up a feed from SKY and that is where we are now. TSN might just possibly be the worst sports network on the planet and have zero idea of what an F1 race is all about but at least they carry them, and for that I am grateful.
So, Lonny you are most likely correct that Senna was a poor sportman as well but as I didn't get to see him race, I can't say one way or the other.



Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2020, 01:58:08 AM »
He was a remarkable talent along the lines of Alonso, perhaps even better. He was, like Schumacher, ruthless in pursuit of winning. I could never forgive him for crashing into Prost deliberately to ensure the WDC.
Lonny

Offline Jericoke

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2020, 04:02:08 AM »
Up until the late 80's in Canada we did not get anything in the way of F1 races on TV unless they were carried by an American broadcaster and then it was only the Monaco GP once a year.
As such no other info was available about other races unless you searched the info out via a sports page in a newspaper and only then, if they mentioned it.
I knew who Jim Clarke was as I had a cousin who followed his career and I enjoyed watching Sir Jackie when he raced Monaco.
Senna died before I started watching F1 as much as I could with limited Tv coverage.
SPEED TV in the states picked up the BBC feed and broadcast that until the Bernie sold the rights to SKY (I think) and the coverage dropped off over here. Then Canada's TSN picked up a feed from SKY and that is where we are now. TSN might just possibly be the worst sports network on the planet and have zero idea of what an F1 race is all about but at least they carry them, and for that I am grateful.
So, Lonny you are most likely correct that Senna was a poor sportman as well but as I didn't get to see him race, I can't say one way or the other.

In the 90's, CBC carried the BBC footage.  BBC even used Canadian talent (Brian Williams, I believe, as well as Greg Moore) for covering the Canadian Grand Prix.  TSN did eventually pick up coverage, simulcasting qualifying/race coverage from the BBC, then ITV, then Sky.  Until Sky started covering F1, it was ONLY the qualifying/race without any pre/post race coverage.  Instead it was a Canadian produced 1/2 hour show with Vic Rauter and 5 minute segment with Gerald Donaldson.  Vic Rauter is known for his coverage of curling, and it showed in his coverage of F1.

Offline cosworth151

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2020, 02:48:50 PM »
Here in the States, we've had F1 on TV in one form or another from the early 60's. From the early 60's until the late 80's, we got edited broadcasts on ABC's Wide World of Sports, usually a week or two after the race. They carried NASCAR, USAC (Indy cars & stockers) and NHRA the same way.

We first real, live F1 we got was when Speedvision came along in 1995. They took the international video feed and added commentary by Hobbs & company. Speedvision was later swallowed by Fox and downgraded to SPEED.

F1 fans of a certain age over here feel about this music the way our cousins across the pond feel about The Chain:

“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Jericoke

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2020, 03:48:19 PM »
Here in the States, we've had F1 on TV in one form or another from the early 60's. From the early 60's until the late 80's, we got edited broadcasts on ABC's Wide World of Sports, usually a week or two after the race. They carried NASCAR, USAC (Indy cars & stockers) and NHRA the same way.

We first real, live F1 we got was when Speedvision came along in 1995. They took the international video feed and added commentary by Hobbs & company. Speedvision was later swallowed by Fox and downgraded to SPEED.

F1 fans of a certain age over here feel about this music the way our cousins across the pond feel about The Chain:



I remember watching the Indy 500 in '86, and thought it was amazing.  I wondered why I'd never seen it before.  It wasn't until a few years ago that I realized that was the first live broadcast of it.

Crazy to think that watching live motorsports on TV is something that only came to be during my lifetime.  Certainly baseball, hockey and football had been doing it for decades already.

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2020, 09:41:53 PM »
In the late '60's it was shown on closed circuit TV in Phoenix at the Fox Theater. It was on the radio even earlier.
Lonny

Offline rwier

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2020, 09:26:34 AM »
Indy 500, maybe even as early as '64, '65, or '66, CC at the Colosseum, 19th and McDowell in Phoenix. Not sure of the year, it was not in (normal) color nor b/w, but a pinkish-brown tint (monochrome?).

edit: I just now realized that the color was very similar to various shades of the dark "pink" text showing all over this site.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 09:30:19 AM by rwier »

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Is Hamilton the best
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2020, 04:20:35 PM »
 :good: :good: :good:
Lonny

 


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