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Author Topic: 2020 Italian Grand Prix  (Read 411 times)

Offline Jericoke

2020 Italian Grand Prix
« on: September 06, 2020, 07:32:58 PM »
Didn't see that coming

Gasly winning in an Alpha Tauri? The first French GP winner since Panis in 1996?

Carlos Sainz putting in a very solid effort to finish a close second in a McLaren?

Lance Stroll snatching 3rd from the jaws of victory in his Racing Point! All he needed was a good start from the restart... and starting is what he does best!

Ferrari performing abysmally at their home race.  Sure, I've seen teams steadily fade over several seasons (williams), and I've seen teams lose performance over a single winter (McLaren Honda), but I've never seen a team manage to get worse from race to race.  Not at the level of ineptitude Ferrari is showing.

Mercedes makes a rare blunder, which creates the entire show. It was really weird seeing only Hamilton pit under the safety car. I understand the stop and go penalty for it, but how come no one noticed the pits were closed? It did let use see what it's like for Lewis to face adversity ( just fine, yet still not driver of the day). It let us see what a race with a non dominant team is like. (Hey Bottas and Albon... time to drive like you're on dominant teams, okay?)

I was so sure Kimi was going to get some points, but ever since the switch to Pirelli if there's a wrong tire to be on, Kimi is on it.

Congratulations to Gasly, congratulations to Alpha Tauri.  Watch your backs Bottas and Albon and seriously, wtf Ferrari?



Offline Dare

Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2020, 11:58:13 PM »
Gioviannzi pitted too.

Spa and Italy were two fast tracks that really
showed Ferrari's weakness. Looks like Alfa might
have a better car than the Prancing Dogs.

The announcers were talking about the restart would be
what a reverse grid would be. I know it's artificial racing
but it was exciting.

I bet Alonso's thinking if only about now. Cost him in F1 and
Indy
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline Andy B

Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2020, 12:32:42 AM »
Stroll was lucky by getting a free pit stop and gaining 24 seconds which would have put Norris third.
Maybe under red Flags the maintenance of cars should not happen as it gives a false unfair result.

Interesting that LH was able to get from 26 seconds behind the last car to seventh but VB could do not better than fifth?

Ferrari being found to be cheating is really biting then in a*@e now.

I expected the Renaults to be faster after last weeks performance.



Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline monty

Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2020, 09:27:20 AM »
Quote
I know it's artificial racing
but it was exciting.
Confirmed my view that the grid could be reversed by championship position at a few races and really provide some exciting races!

Offline John S

Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2020, 10:00:23 AM »
What a brilliant feast for us TV spectators, everyone wants unpredictable races but who'd thought we'd get it in a dry race.

Sure good drive and congrats to Gasly who took his opportunity well. Total luck for AT strategy to play out perfectly - oh and he had set of new medium boots to stick on at red flag stop. Some days the Gods are with you and this was surely one of them.

Poor old Sainz just can't catch a break this term, he had no new mediums left to put on at red flag stop so had to continue on the mediums fitted some laps earlier, maybe it cost him the win.  :DntKnw:

Don't know what RP were thinking when they left Stroll out at first safety car and yet it proved to be a good strat call. Not sure last year's Merc lookilikee is any better on top speed than this year's Merc so he was always gonna find it tough when others stayed in DRS range behind him.

Lando good fighting drive and made good early progress, somehow though Carlos had more speed round Monza for pretty much all the weekend. Not heard any talk of running development parts on only one car so maybe this is a bogey track for Lando, good solid drive though.

Not sure how Bottas got himself bogged down in 6/5 place for most of race when Lewis could scythe his way from back to 7th in half race. Unless big damage I reckon it's this much talked about quality of making progress when the odds and possibly car are against you that Valtteri lacks, sure he's fast as lightning on a clear track but lacks something in race craft.
Kinda reminds me why Gasly got dropped from No 1 bulls team, Marko said he couldn't overtake and got bogged down to often when down the order, not sure Pierre has answered that criticism with this win as not too much passing was required. Will next Term be Bottas' last at Merc? 

Good fun watching Kimi mix it at the front, was always a try for a point or two, but still gave us thrills to watch whilst his tyres lasted.

The Dummies of the field turned out to be the Reds and the Bulls. Bad enough to see Ferrari disgrace themselves even more than expected, but to see the Bulls completely off their game as well is a real shocker.

Lastly have to mention Latifi who managed to bring the Williams home in 11th - so near yet so far from a point for Frank & Claire's last race. Just another might have been tale from topsy turvey Italian GP.   
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline monty

Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2020, 11:16:36 AM »
I have to agree with Norris though, the rule that allows teams to change tyres under red flag conditions is ridiculous. Red flag should equal Parc Ferme conditions. Stroll should not have been where he was - he only achieved it because he changed tyres while the race was stopped.

Offline John S

Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2020, 12:38:38 PM »
I have to agree with Norris though, the rule that allows teams to change tyres under red flag conditions is ridiculous. Red flag should equal Parc Ferme conditions. Stroll should not have been where he was - he only achieved it because he changed tyres while the race was stopped.

luck of the draw surely Monty, what about the times when a safety car gets thrown and the leaders are on the wrong part of the track, i.e. just passed pit in and lower runners can then jump them by diving in straight away.

Do you think then they should close pit lane as soon as safety car thrown and then only allow stops once field bunched up behind S/C? - No not for me, open pitlane has spiced up many races over the years.

Rule allowing changes to cars dates back to time with all those big pile ups on start lap, when T-cars were banned unless you allowed running repair or tyre changes the grid could have been down to single numbers for restarts.

Surely the rule remains to ensure that there's no cars with potentially dangerous elements making restart. How many times are races red flagged these days? So does it really matter in the grand scheme.

Anyway Gasly benefited as well, he was able to fit brand new set of mediums where as Sainz had no new mediums left and had to stay on present tyres or go onto new hards - either way slower than new mediums.

Haven't been able to find if Norris changed his boots during red flag, maybe he was in same position as Sainz. Sure not reaching podium suck's Lando, but as 'Muddy Talker' always used to say 'if' is F1 backwards. 
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline cosworth151

Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2020, 01:39:42 PM »
That's why they call Monza "The Magic Track." It was so much fun that we should do it again this coming weekend!  ;)

Mercedes says that Bottas had handling problems stemming from multiple contacts on the first lap. Based on his performance in previous races, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Albon, on the other hand, is blowing the chance of a lifetime. 'Nuff said.

I understand why they closed the pit entrance in this case. K-Mag pulled off to the inside just after Parabolica. Cars entering the pit would pull to the far right of the track, right where the marshals were clearing the stopped Haas. (I don't understand why they pushed it all the way to the pits instead of pulling it through the gate right behind where it stopped) I don't know if a warning pops up on the teams' timing & scoring screens that the pits are closed, but there should be. In future, they might want to have a warning also pop up on the steering wheel display.

I really, really wanted to see Latifi get by Checko & score a point in the Williams family's final race.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Dare

Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2020, 02:45:10 PM »
I liked this quote from Lewis.


Hamilton, who will head to Mugello for the Tuscan Grand Prix on Sunday, paid tribute to the sport’s newest winner.

“When Pierre was at Red Bull he was dropped unfairly,” said Hamilton. “He wasn’t given the time to develop.

“He’s now gone to the B-team and he has beaten the A-team. That puts a big smile on my face because I think he truly deserves it.”
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline John S

Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2020, 03:25:08 PM »
I liked this quote from Lewis.


Hamilton, who will head to Mugello for the Tuscan Grand Prix on Sunday, paid tribute to the sport’s newest winner.

“When Pierre was at Red Bull he was dropped unfairly,” said Hamilton. “He wasn’t given the time to develop.

“He’s now gone to the B-team and he has beaten the A-team. That puts a big smile on my face because I think he truly deserves it.”

I like this quote from Helmut Marko better on the subject of Lewis and Pierre.

 "I don’t quite understand this," the Austrian told Sky Germany at Monza before the race after Lewis' disparaging comments about Albon's performance this year.

"Hamilton called us several times last year to tell us to put Albon in the car."

"These statements are not quite comprehensible to me." added Marko.

Seems Mr Hamilton was in favour of dropping Pierre last term. IMHO he's more into mischief and mind games than really praising opposition drivers.

Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Dare

Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2020, 03:35:39 PM »
I liked this quote from Lewis.


Hamilton, who will head to Mugello for the Tuscan Grand Prix on Sunday, paid tribute to the sport’s newest winner.

“When Pierre was at Red Bull he was dropped unfairly,” said Hamilton. “He wasn’t given the time to develop.

“He’s now gone to the B-team and he has beaten the A-team. That puts a big smile on my face because I think he truly deserves it.”

I like this quote from Helmut Marko better on the subject of Lewis and Pierre.

 "I don’t quite understand this," the Austrian told Sky Germany at Monza before the race after Lewis' disparaging comments about Albon's performance this year.

"Hamilton called us several times last year to tell us to put Albon in the car."

"These statements are not quite comprehensible to me." added Marko.

Seems Mr Hamilton was in favour of dropping Pierre last term. IMHO he's more into mischief and mind games than really praising opposition drivers.




Now that's the Lewis I've come to rather
not say.  Fantastic driver but never really
cared for him
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline Willy

Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2020, 04:19:01 PM »
The commentators talking about a reverse grid to shake things up is an interesting idea but will only cause the teams to to race to the back during quali.
If it is really to be implemented it needs to be set up so they reverse every once and a while dependant on a secret coin toss or some other determining factor so no team can be totally prepered for it.
Look at how fast they all reacted to finding ways to pass in the pits during a fuel stop when Schmacher was leading the endless procession that was F1.

It was great to see some new faces on the podum and also to see how Lewis gave a masterclass in how to move up from the rear when you have a great car and skillset.

Offline Jericoke

Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2020, 02:39:24 AM »
The commentators talking about a reverse grid to shake things up is an interesting idea but will only cause the teams to to race to the back during quali.
If it is really to be implemented it needs to be set up so they reverse every once and a while dependant on a secret coin toss or some other determining factor so no team can be totally prepered for it.
Look at how fast they all reacted to finding ways to pass in the pits during a fuel stop when Schmacher was leading the endless procession that was F1.

It was great to see some new faces on the podum and also to see how Lewis gave a masterclass in how to move up from the rear when you have a great car and skillset.

Reverse grid would really only work if points are handed out for qualifying (which I'm not opposed to.  There have been calls for years to award a point for pole position anyway.)

The biggest change a reverse grid would bring would be rules, supported by the top teams, that very much encourage passing.  Better aerodynamic wash so cars can follow closely.  Wider tracks with multiple racing lines

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2020, 07:30:16 AM »
Reverse grid would only work as intended if the points for qualifying were the same, or almost the same, as for the race (a bird in the hand is not always worth two in the bush), or gaming the system. The prime example of the latter was Silverstone 2004 when there were two qualifying sessions and there was merely the hint it would be better to go earlier in the 2nd session. Most drivers went as slowly as possible, including deliberate spins. The honest drivers got the last laugh because the second session was dry, which rewarded those who'd done their laps correctly. However, rules can't suddenly "not happen" mid-weekend the way weather can. As for my confidence in the FIA preventing gaming of the system... ...look at last weekend, and the queueing that was more prevalent than last year despite rules that were meant to prevent it!

Sunday happened due to a suprising sequence of events that nobody could put into their race calculations in advance. Rules to attempt to replicate that contradict that, and suggest the FIA and Liberty don't know how to get a good race (i.e. surprise).
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline John S

Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2020, 02:30:30 PM »
Think the plan is to replace Quali with reversed grid race to decide starting order for Main race. Reversed grid from last race finish positions so no one can game anything.

Not sure if points will be involved as the Quali we know now simply becomes a Qualifying race. Maybe they'll have to offer points to get teams to agree.  :DntKnw:
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

 


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