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Author Topic: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium  (Read 1359 times)

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2020, 01:54:17 PM »
The issue is not in the Sporting Regulations, it's in Article 1.2 of the FIA Statutes. Which says:

Quote
The FIA shall refrain from manifesting discrimination on account of race, skin colour, gender, sexual orientation, ethnic or social origin, language, religion, philosophical or political opinion, family situation or disability in the course of its activities and from taking any action in this respect.

This covers anything that happens at a FIA-organised event that the FIA could be perceived as the FIA condoning or repressing something the Article indicates it should not, regardless of whether or not an FIA staff member did it.

Strictly speaking, the rule breach wouldn't be in Lewis wearing the T-shirt; it would be in the FIA not penalising Lewis for doing so. That's why no team has protested, because the protest window closes far too early to ascertain whether the FIA was going to react to Lewis' attire (the FIA's allowed to launch cases any time until the results are sealed for the year in December) and besides, only the FIA could be an affected party by Lewis' actions according to the rulebook.

I think the FIA would prefer not to penalise Lewis if it can feasibly do so, because if it was truly upset by the attire, there was ample time for the stewards to demand Lewis' presence for an explanation and an on-the-spot decision. However, I am not convinced Article 1.2 gives the FIA that scope.

(In case anyone is wondering, the reason the Sporting Regulations have the superfluous rule about political stuff on cars is because a team that shall remain nameless Ferrari decided in 2013 that it was a good idea to put a subtle political logo on its cars one race (about releasing Italian sailors who had strayed into Iranian waters and been subsequently arrested). Said team wriggled out of a penalty because the stewards could not absolutely prove the logo's political nature...)

If Mercedes or its sponsors had a problem with the T-shirt, that is considered a strictly internal issue. Mercedes are backing Lewis all the way, though.

I'd never heard anything about it either, when I saw Lewis's t-shirt I thought who the heck is that and what's it all about.

What I do find a tad confusing about Hamilton's actions... the American athletes were originally protesting how American authorities were treating American citizens.  Thus the symbolism of kneeling during the American national anthem.  (If you're not American, you don't get how big a deal this is.  A large number of Americans consider the anthem playing to be a holy moment, and you're damned to Hell if you disrupt it.  If you are American, you don't get how the rest of us don't consider the national anthem quite so seriously.  We see it as a moment of patriotism, sure, but we're not going to Hell because we forgot stand up while some old song gets played.) 

There are other countries where disrespecting the anthem is a big deal, though in the other cases, it is assumed the entire punishment will be delivered in this life rather than any future one. Namely, because one's fellows will regard one as unpatriotic and potentially racist against their own nation. Two of them are Italy and Russia, which explains some of the pattern seen among the standers during the "End Racism" pre-race protests. (Though Italy is sufficiently divided that I've seen Italians arguing with each other between the stances of "Kneeling is racist", "Standing is racist" and "Why is this worth arguing about; we should honour the anthem in ways that make sense to us and don't prevent others from doing likewise?" Said arguments have gone as far as the Italian parliament...)
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Willy

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2020, 06:32:33 PM »
I see from a sponsor standpoint that there could be an issue if you are paying big bucks to have your logo featured and it gets covered by a T-shirt then you could complain.
Toto stood and watched the entire time Lewis wore the shirt and appeared to not be concerned. If he was, he did a very good job of hiding it.
I can also see the FIA will want to have a word with Lewis or others may start to use the platform for their own issues.
Liberty need to tread lightly as Lewis has a global impact, and he knows it, so if he decides do flex that muscle, guess who's side the fans will be on?

Offline Jericoke

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2020, 03:12:51 PM »
I see from a sponsor standpoint that there could be an issue if you are paying big bucks to have your logo featured and it gets covered by a T-shirt then you could complain.
Toto stood and watched the entire time Lewis wore the shirt and appeared to not be concerned. If he was, he did a very good job of hiding it.
I can also see the FIA will want to have a word with Lewis or others may start to use the platform for their own issues.
Liberty need to tread lightly as Lewis has a global impact, and he knows it, so if he decides do flex that muscle, guess who's side the fans will be on?

Exactly.  Lewis knows what he's doing, Toto (and by extension Mercedes top brass and major sponsorship) knows to leave it be.  Nobody wants the bad press that goes with complaining your logo is covered up for 10 seconds.

It's unlikely to be a last second addition, Lewis had to have the shirt available, which means someone at Mercedes had to know about the plan, which means Lewis and someone (maybe Toto, most likely a PR employee with direction from Toto) had a private discussion about it.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2020, 02:25:32 PM »
I see from a sponsor standpoint that there could be an issue if you are paying big bucks to have your logo featured and it gets covered by a T-shirt then you could complain.
Toto stood and watched the entire time Lewis wore the shirt and appeared to not be concerned. If he was, he did a very good job of hiding it.
I can also see the FIA will want to have a word with Lewis or others may start to use the platform for their own issues.
Liberty need to tread lightly as Lewis has a global impact, and he knows it, so if he decides do flex that muscle, guess who's side the fans will be on?

Exactly.  Lewis knows what he's doing, Toto (and by extension Mercedes top brass and major sponsorship) knows to leave it be.  Nobody wants the bad press that goes with complaining your logo is covered up for 10 seconds.

It's unlikely to be a last second addition, Lewis had to have the shirt available, which means someone at Mercedes had to know about the plan, which means Lewis and someone (maybe Toto, most likely a PR employee with direction from Toto) had a private discussion about it.

Also a Merc staffer had to hand him the T-shirt post-race, because he was slightly late to the interview area and the only people who could have come outside that might plausibly have conveyed the T-shirt is someone with a Mercedes paddock pass.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Willy

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2020, 07:34:02 PM »
Very good point Ali.
He didn't have the t-shirt bundled up in the car all race just so he could spring it on the press at the last minute. This was planned and approved or someone from Merc would be handed their papers.

Offline Dare

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2020, 01:05:41 PM »
The finding if the Police Officers will be charged
in the Taylor shooting today. Many streets are
already closed and the Police are ready for a riot
to start. I'm afraid it's going to get nasty here.
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline monty

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2020, 01:29:41 PM »
Quote
I'm afraid it's going to get nasty here
Let's hope you are fearing the worst but you get the best but it seems (everywhere) the mobs are just looking for an excuse to cause public unrest!

Offline Jericoke

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2020, 02:32:27 PM »
Quote
I'm afraid it's going to get nasty here
Let's hope you are fearing the worst but you get the best but it seems (everywhere) the mobs are just looking for an excuse to cause public unrest!

The mobs aren't creating unrest.  A happy satisfied secure person doesn't just up and join a mob.  The unrest is being created by society (can argue about whether it's the government, poor parenting, public agitators (likely a combination of all three)), but the 'mob' isn't out to cause trouble, the mob is out because trouble has been created.

I would charge the officers, it's prudent given the situation.  Even if they're 100% exonerated through a fair process (and awarded damages for their trouble), it shows that the situation is being taken seriously.  If police complain it means they have to think twice before shooting someone... get me the world's smallest violin.

Offline Dare

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2020, 06:56:16 PM »
I think most mobs could care less about the cause,it's
just another reason to loot.

As far as the Police Officers remember taylor's bf shot a
Officer and when you fire on the Police there's usually a bad
outcome.

I'm not going to get into it but there's a lot more details
than the public hears. Details have been posted on different
news sites only to disappear the next day.
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2020, 10:25:49 AM »
On this occasion I can see exactly why there is a riot. The police didn't even try to fill the report in (most of it is blank, including most of the things that were being testified about), some of what was written in is known to be false (claiming no forced entry when it was confirmed that a battering ram was used) and the court barely even addressed the killing, only worrying about the possibility other people in the flat than Breonna might have been injured. Even though Breonna was never the one covered by the warrant. It is reasonable to question whether the officers' verbal testimony is truthful when their own written testimony contradicts it (let alone the observations of witnesses). Yet that was brushed aside.

Hard to say the rioters started anarchy when courts make it clear through their actions that anarchy is already officially sanctioned, provided it's practiced by people in uniform.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline monty

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2020, 11:14:39 AM »
Protests can be justified - riots cannot. There have already been two Police Officers shot in the riots today. This is just mob rule.
The USA has some serious problems with training of their Police officers but if you have a gun and somebody shoots at you, the most likely response is to shoot back!! For a guy like me, born and living in the UK, the problem seems to be that too many people in the States have guns. I know that isn't going to change but a gun is such an impersonal way of snuffing out life - so easy to just blast wildly.

Offline John S

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2020, 11:26:04 AM »
On this occasion I can see exactly why there is a riot. The police didn't even try to fill the report in (most of it is blank, including most of the things that were being testified about), some of what was written in is known to be false (claiming no forced entry when it was confirmed that a battering ram was used) and the court barely even addressed the killing, only worrying about the possibility other people in the flat than Breonna might have been injured. Even though Breonna was never the one covered by the warrant. It is reasonable to question whether the officers' verbal testimony is truthful when their own written testimony contradicts it (let alone the observations of witnesses). Yet that was brushed aside.

Hard to say the rioters started anarchy when courts make it clear through their actions that anarchy is already officially sanctioned, provided it's practiced by people in uniform.

I think you're forgetting that the cops turned up with a sanctioned warrant to enter those premises. Then one of the occupants fired at and injured one of the officers as they entered, this much is admitted by the man who shot at them.

Sure there are holes in the logs and yes the response in certain parts has been deemed over the top, but firing at police in a drugs raid is gonna bring return fire sure as eggs are eggs.

If we try to scrupulously apply polite courtroom niceties into the few seconds that it takes to respond to a mortal threat, like being fired at for doing your job, then we're all doomed.

I think most of what just happened might be a blank to me also if I was in a gunfight that seemed a life or death situation. You can run all the sims you like with cops/soldiers on how to react and deal with mortal danger, but when it comes each person has differing responses and in the milliseconds needed to perhaps live or die strange things may, and indeed often do occur. Everyone is an individual after all.

Police and soldiers are just the same as the rest of us with hopes, fears and everything else. Without backing from a mostly silent majority who on earth would want to be a police officer?

Consider what the alternative might look like if the calls to either disband or defund many police forces in the US go through. The next meadow always looks greener from afar. 

   
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Dare

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2020, 12:54:43 PM »
One little tidbit the media fails to say is Taylor
wasn't a EMT at the time of her death. Depending
on which story you believe she was either fired
or quit 3 years ago. But every story has a picture
of her in a EMT uniform.  Hopefully the whole story
will eventually come out  and just not rumors why
they were there.

Next time need help who are you calling the Police or the
rioters[protesters]
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline Jericoke

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2020, 04:52:45 PM »

Next time need help who are you calling the Police or the
rioters[protesters]

Depends if I'm being attacked by police or rioters I suppose!

It's silly that the only two choices are paramilitary response, or anarchy.  Where's the middle ground?

Could you imagine an F1 car where the only choices were full throttle or full brakes?


Offline John S

Re: Lewis under investigation for Slogan T-shirt on F1 Tuscan GP podium
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2020, 05:14:24 PM »

Could you imagine an F1 car where the only choices were full throttle or full brakes?

I thought with the amount of downforce in F1 now that's what it amounts to these days for most drivers.  :D :D 
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

 


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