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Author Topic: Grosjean Accident  (Read 1337 times)

Offline Willy

Grosjean Accident
« on: November 29, 2020, 04:25:00 PM »
Holy crap!!
Thank heavens for the Halo.



Offline Jericoke

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2020, 05:57:03 PM »
Holy crap!!
Thank heavens for the Halo.

I think he used every safety innovation ever.  The halo, the monocoque, the HANS device, the fire resistant suit, the modern crashhelmet, the barrier deforming to absorb energy, the car disintegrating to dissipate energy.  Every single one did their job, if any of them hadn't been up to the task, it would be a very different day today.

Offline cosworth151

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2020, 05:57:55 PM »
I wondered about all of the fire. I checked the FIA regulations and found out that foam filled fuel cells are not required:
Quote
6.1Fuel tanks
6.1.1The fuel tank must be a single rubber bladder conforming to or exceeding the specifications of FIA Standard FT5-1999, the fitting of foam within the tank however is not mandatory. A list of approved materials may be found in Technical List No.1 (Fuel tank materials homologated on the basis of FT3-1999, FT3.5-1999 and FT5-1999) on the FIA website.

That was required even on dirt track cars around here back in the early 1980's.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Willy

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2020, 09:13:16 PM »
Another point I did not mention is the fact the Medical Car follows the cars on the 1st lap is a very smart idea.
They were 1st responders to Romain and the Chief Medical Officer was the one who stepped into the flames to help Grosjean over the barrier to safety.
Then again they were on the scene and helped Lance out of his overturned car.
Most races they have a nice quiet drive around the tracks of the world but today they earned their yearly wages for sure.

Offline Andy B

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2020, 02:03:30 AM »
Fortunately the accident happened where is did as if it had been towards the end of the lap the medical car would have been a long way behind the pack.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline ralt12

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2020, 04:03:13 AM »
Last one like that I remember was Berger’s big shunt. (I just held my breath as long as I could...)
Tyrrell 018/2, 018/1, 017/4 gone but not forgotten

Offline rmassart

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2020, 06:03:15 AM »
Fortunately the accident happened where is did as if it had been towards the end of the lap the medical car would have been a long way behind the pack.

I am quite concerned that Grosjean had to free himself alone from that fireball.  And even more amazed that he had the wherewithal and physical condition to do so . As I understood from the pictures he got out himself and was halfway across the barriers before anyone came to his aid. That was about thirty seconds. Imagine he was unconscious...

I am not trying to belittle the work of the marshals or anyone really. Maybe this is as good as can be achieved, but I think that needs to be looked at.  It seems like the first guy coming to help was from the medical car. And yet I thought there were marshals nearby.  But I felt it took too long to get a serious fire extinguisher going.

Just some thoughts of mine, not trying to criticise anyone.

Offline Andy B

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2020, 08:04:28 AM »
As you bring it up!
A fire marshal on the safe side of the barrier started an extinguisher and at no point got close enough to make any difference to the fire.
On the track side a fire marshal eventually started an extinguisher and that was effective in helping the doctor help RG over the barrier.
It has to be remembered that the Doctor has an open faced helmet so could not enter the flames if RG had been unconscious we would be having a different discussion.
The Marshals do a great job and the incident that happened today was unusual but the use of extinguisher training needs to be increased including putting out actual fires.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline monty

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2020, 09:14:35 AM »
I'm not sure what the FIA insist upon but when I did some marshalling at British tracks, the Fire Marshals were track employees or expert volunteers from the local fire department. The rest of us were given basic training but were told that when there was a fire we should really leave it to the fully equipped/fully trained Fire Marshalls.
As far as I could see there was only one guy in a fire resistant suit and he was approaching the fire in the correct way. However, it did worry me that some of the other marshals (big guy with top-knot) were not doing anything. If they had directed extinguishers (even from a distance) it would have helped.
My biggest interest is - did the internal extinguisher in the car still work? If the destruction of the car resulted in no extinguisher deploying in the survival cell they really need to change that design.

Offline cosworth151

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2020, 03:59:14 PM »
Most top-line racing series here in the States have a professional medical and fire response team that travel with the series. American Medical Response (AMR) provide these services to both IndyCar & NASCAR.

The AMR IndyCar Safety Team consists of approximately 30 safety personnel with a minimum of 18 attending each event – a trauma physician, an orthopedic physician, two paramedics, 12 firefighters/EMTs and two registered nurses.

I realize that the logistics for something like this would be much more complicated for a world-wide series like F1. Still, it should be looked into.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2020, 07:05:46 PM »
While fires have become rare in F1, thank God, I wonder why Fi doesn't have fire trucks. The safety crews Cossie mentioned have trucks with firefighting equipment as well as rescue and medical supplies. They travel from race to race I believe, but they are on scene practically before the wrecked car stops moving and are much more effective than fire bottles.
Lonny

Offline Jericoke

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2020, 03:53:33 PM »
While fires have become rare in F1, thank God, I wonder why Fi doesn't have fire trucks. The safety crews Cossie mentioned have trucks with firefighting equipment as well as rescue and medical supplies. They travel from race to race I believe, but they are on scene practically before the wrecked car stops moving and are much more effective than fire bottles.

Fire trucks would be easier to deploy on an oval compared with road tracks (and a nightmare on street tracks).  However maybe several fire quadcycles with a large tank of suppressant could be staged around the track.  They'd be faster than marshals on foot, and much more fire fighting power than a single extinguisher.


Offline cosworth151

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2020, 04:00:35 PM »
Grosjean says that he was thinking about Niki Lauda while he was trying to get out of the car. That's understandable.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.grosjean-says-he-thought-about-niki-lauda-and-reveals-he-saw-death-coming-in.3oQv8UHBx5Jy496tMTGIeb.html

My first thought, before I saw him get out, was of François Cevert's fatal accident at the 1973 U.S.G.P.

Haas announced that Nikita Mazapin will be in Grosjean's car this weekend. I was hoping for Mick Schumacher.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Online John S

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2020, 04:14:44 PM »


Haas announced that Nikita Mazapin will be in Grosjean's car this weekend. I was hoping for Mick Schumacher.

Think Pietro Fittipaldi has been announced to drive the Haas in place of Grosjean this coming weekend.

Mazepin has been announced as a driver for next season at Haas, every one expects Mick to get the 2nd seat, but don't know what hold up is to that confirmation.
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline cosworth151

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2020, 05:11:37 PM »
I guess the "unofficial" F1 news feed I read got it wrong. (No, I won't use the phrase "fake news."   ;)  )

My bad. I should have checked the team site.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

 


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