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Author Topic: Grosjean Accident  (Read 1338 times)

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2020, 08:28:57 PM »
Quads is a good idea Jeri. Indycar manages to spot their trucks around road courses and even at Long Beach. Quads would be easier logistically and you could transport a few trained people to man them. Anybody see any mention of the on board extinguishers working?

Offline monty

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2020, 09:08:18 AM »
There is always room for improvement but I suppose we shouldn't lose sight of how safe F1 has become and remember that this is the first major fire since 1989 and that he survived without serious injury (thank goodness). Therefore, no need for 'knee jerk' changes.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2020, 12:37:47 PM »
Most top-line racing series here in the States have a professional medical and fire response team that travel with the series. American Medical Response (AMR) provide these services to both IndyCar & NASCAR.

The AMR IndyCar Safety Team consists of approximately 30 safety personnel with a minimum of 18 attending each event – a trauma physician, an orthopedic physician, two paramedics, 12 firefighters/EMTs and two registered nurses.

I realize that the logistics for something like this would be much more complicated for a world-wide series like F1. Still, it should be looked into.

The logistics of this turn out to be impossible: the crew would have to be licensed in every single country they operated in, with only the EU, USA/Canada and Arabic countries having any recognition whatsoever of other countries' medical qualifications. Even then, the EU ones require additional certification to enable familiarity with each country's systems. That means the 2021 calendar would require people to have 14 separate medical degrees plus a bunch of additional certificates in order to be able to do the equivalent role that the IndyCar Safety Team (for example) does with 1 each. I don't think it's even legal to have 14 medical degrees current at the same time, and certainly it would take too much time to be compatible with a travelling team.

Outside the jurisdiction in which they qualified, the F1 doctor is deemed no more qualified to act in a direct medical capacity than their medical car driver (both have first aid qualifications - the one part of medicine with completely portable certification - with FIA additions for motorsport-related first aid). Sure, he's allowed to manage medical operations (lots of places don't even require the medical manager to have a medical qualification in the first place), but logistically the rest of the team has to be local. Unless F1 is to limit itself to places which recognise whichever medical degree F1 deems to be paramount?
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter) (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Scott

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2020, 11:30:01 AM »

Haas announced that Nikita Mazapin will be in Grosjean's car this weekend. I was hoping for Mick Schumacher.

I thought Fittipaldi was given the nod
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Scott

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2020, 11:34:01 AM »
I lay it down to a freak accident and am so happy the way it turned out.  I don’t think anything needs to be looked at other than the barrier that split and allowed the front of RG’s car to penetrate it. 

Either another look at how they structure the Armco or consider cement with a softer buffer layer
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2020, 12:26:44 PM »

Haas announced that Nikita Mazapin will be in Grosjean's car this weekend. I was hoping for Mick Schumacher.

I thought Fittipaldi was given the nod

He was. Mazepin and Schumacher are busy contesting the F2 title that weekend, and don't want to split their attention across two series.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter) (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2020, 06:06:31 PM »
Not the first time ARMCO has done that. Way back in the late '60's or early '70's I went to an Indy Car race at Phoenix International Raceway on the oval. Don't remember whose car it was, maybe Bobby Unser (?), went straight up the turn 3 banking and went under the ARMCO, splitting the bottom layer of three. I honestly thought he was dead, the way the car was wedged in. But he was basically unhurt somehow. Took them at least an hour to unbolt the damaged section and replace it. I think that splitting is why you don't really see a lot of tracks use it anymore. If you can afford it and have the extra space needed, there are better options. PIR (not sure what they're calling it these days) is all or nearly all Safer Barrier now.

Offline lkjohnson1950


Offline Jericoke

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2020, 02:57:00 AM »
Romain gives his account of the accident.

That's incredible, you could make an hour long documentary out of his description of the escape.  It must've seemed like forever for him.  By the time I was done shouting 'holy sh*t' at the TV,  he'd already accepted his death, and then decided to fight after all.

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2020, 08:16:53 PM »
A few details of the safety equipment. I still haven't been able to find any mention of the onboard fire equipment.


Offline cosworth151

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2020, 04:50:54 PM »
Section 14.1 of the F1 Technical Regulations state:

All cars must be fitted with a fire extinguishing system which will discharge into the cockpit and into the engine compartment.

That section, and its associated appendixes, go on to describe the system. This section seems to be what we're looking for:

All parts of the extinguishing system must be situated within the survival cell and all extinguishing equipment must withstand fire.

Any triggering system having its own source of energy is permitted, provided it is possible to operate all extinguishers should the main electrical circuits of the car fail.

The driver must be able to trigger the extinguishing system manually when seated normally with his safety belts fastened and the steering wheel in place.

Furthermore, a means of triggering from the outside must be combined with the circuit breaker switches described in Article 8.7. They must be marked with a letter "E" in red at least 80mm tall, with a line thickness of at least 8mm, inside a white circle of at least 100mm diameter with a red edge with a line thickness of at least 4mm.

The system must work in any position, even when the car is inverted.

Notice on the picture below that the red E symbol mentioned in this regulation is almost exactly where the car split in two. That indicates where the external extinguisher trigger is located. It make me wonder if that had any effect on it.

One more thing about the car splitting. The power unit/rear suspension carried away a lot of weight, and therefor a lot of energy, with it. That undoubtedly worked in Grosjean's favor.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2020, 09:24:09 PM »
I know it's there, I just can't find any reference to it being activated. Romaln talks about the wheel being gone and unfastening his belts but he doesn't say he set off the extinguishers. None of the articles on how the safety bits worked mention the fire bottles at all.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2020, 09:33:37 PM »
The extinguishers would have been disconnected in the crash, because the main extinguisher is for the cockpit area (there's another strand that goes into the engine), and it would of course have been separated from its target area and control functions in the initial collision. It's not clear if the entire system was even retained - the battery compartment fell out of the bottom, from what I read.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter) (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2020, 09:37:27 PM »
Ahh. Alia always knows.   :D

Offline Andy B

Re: Grosjean Accident
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2020, 11:11:46 PM »
Interesting that it was the filler cap and mechanism that burst from the tub spilling all the fuel, I'm sure there'll be a rethink on that.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!


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