collapse

* Welcome

Welcome to GPWizard F1 Forum!

GPWizard is the friendliest F1 forum you'll find anywhere. You have a host of new like-minded friends waiting to welcome you.

So what are you waiting for? Becoming a member is easy and free! Take a couple seconds out of your day and register now. We guarantee, you wont be sorry you did.

Click Here to become a full Member for Free

* User Info

 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

* Newsletter

GPWizard F1 Forum Newsletter Email address:
Weekly
Fortnightly
Monthly

* Grid Game Deadlines

Qualifying

Race

* Shoutbox

Refresh History
  • Wizzo: Chat room now available. See you in there
    July 05, 2020, 02:05:12 PM
  • cosworth151: Hey Wizzo. I can see that you & dd are in the chat room but I can't get in!
    July 05, 2020, 02:04:26 PM
  • Wizzo: Hi Andy, ill look at this tomorrow.  Thanks
    May 19, 2020, 10:08:09 PM
  • Andy B: Hi Wiz, I have tried to make a donation using my UK bank account but PayPal will not accept the card as I live in NZ and have a UK card? This is not your problem but is there a way I can just pay directly with a Visa card?
    May 18, 2020, 10:41:51 PM
  • Wizzo: GPW will be down from approximately 13:30 tomorrow until the migration to the new server is complete. Once the site is "live" on the new server it could take another 24-48 hours to become accessible to all users.
    May 14, 2020, 03:18:44 PM
  • Wizzo: I've made some changes to GPW. Try it now
    April 29, 2020, 02:33:08 PM
  • lkjohnson1950: Hey Wiz, Quarantine Diaries doesn't display right for me. The bottom is cut off of the page and I can't see any post after Alia's.
    April 28, 2020, 08:13:44 PM
  • Dare: Hope your doing ok Braden...just now saw your comment. Don't be a stanger
    April 20, 2020, 04:04:18 AM
  • BraydenSoh: Hi everyone! How's life? Hope everybody still doing well!
    April 13, 2020, 03:48:17 PM
  • Wizzo: Session problem now solved. Thanks
    February 05, 2020, 09:43:41 AM
  • John S: Hey! Anyone else notice the huge number of guests on the site today - Wow!!  :yahoo:
    December 03, 2019, 08:38:00 PM
  • Wizzo: Please note: Japanese qualifying times have been updated.
    October 11, 2019, 02:05:42 PM
  • Scott: I'll be in chat for a change...hope some others will make it too.
    September 07, 2019, 08:58:16 PM
  • cosworth151: This Sunday is Mothers Day here in the States. I'll be helping with the free breakfast we do at our Amvets Post every M's Day, so I'll be popping in and out of the Chat Room
    May 10, 2019, 03:57:04 PM
  • Wizzo: Mothers day here in the UK so I will be absent in the chat room today. Have fun!
    March 31, 2019, 10:47:48 AM
  • Jericoke: For newcomers to GPWizard, make sure you check out the live chat during the race!  It's the best way to turn a dull race into a great time, and the cherry on top of a great race!  (I won't be able to attend Aussie though)
    March 15, 2019, 07:48:58 PM
  • Wizzo: The 2019 Grid Game is now open. Please check out the new rules before entering.
    February 17, 2019, 04:56:33 PM
  • John S: Glad the site is back online, we don't know how much we like it til it's gone. Thanks Wizzo.
    February 02, 2019, 09:19:33 PM
  • Calman: Glad to see you back online Wizzo.  Did the issue point to a corrupted MySQL Data Table?
    February 02, 2019, 08:53:13 PM
  • Wizzo: I apologise for the downtime. Normal service has been resumed.
    February 02, 2019, 07:53:12 PM

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 80
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Top Posters

cosworth151 cosworth151
15534 Posts
Scott Scott
13955 Posts
Dare Dare
12525 Posts
John S John S
10414 Posts
Ian Ian
9697 Posts

Author Topic: Mercedes W11  (Read 1534 times)

Offline Andy B

Mercedes W11
« on: December 22, 2020, 08:02:11 PM »
It is said that the W11 is the fastest F1 car ever built and that maybe so to date but as Mercedes stopped developing it months ago to concentrate on 2021's version what are we likely to see next year?
Even Lewis might be excited!


Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline Jericoke

Re: Mercedes W11
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2020, 04:38:40 PM »
I find it crazy that Mercedes got their design 'so right' that they could coast through the season and still utterly dominate.

Offline jimclark

Re: Mercedes W11
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2020, 08:44:57 PM »
Am I mistaken....I thought the cars will must be the same next year as this year's.....?
Mayhaps I misinterpreted.....
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 08:49:19 PM by jimclark »
"Those were the days my friends. We thought they'd never end..."

jimclark

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Mercedes W11
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2020, 08:56:06 PM »
Believe you're right. 2021 new regs postponed till 2022. 2021 car will be some kind of update on this year's car.
Lonny

Offline Andy B

Re: Mercedes W11
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2020, 11:35:11 PM »
You are right Ik but there will be developments such as Ferrari bringing a new engine but take a look at the link below and that has a video too which explains a lot.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/153414/what-new-for-formula-1-in-2021
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Online John S

Re: Mercedes W11
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2020, 01:11:32 PM »
The 2021 cars will have some changes, for a start Merc's DAS system is outlawed and then there are new tyres from Pirelli to get to grips with.
A main focus will be working inside the new budget caps, but there are some other new bits to the tech regs.

To mitigate the effect of the chassis freeze from 2020 to 2021, teams will  be limited on the number of upgrades they are allowed to make via a new token system.

There will also be new limits to power unit upgrades through each season, as well as a limit of the number of exhaust systems drivers may use that will come into force for 2021.

Changes have also been made to the technical regulations relating to floor design ahead of the rear tyres in order to reduce any potential downforce gains next year.

The minimum weight of the cars will also increase for 2021, rising from 746kg to 749kg.

A new handicap system for aerodynamic testing will also be introduced in 2021, operating on a sliding scale that reduces the amount of windtunnel time for the leading teams in the constructors' championship.

How much difference this will make to outright pace is an unknown, however the object of the changes is to stop them going even faster and perhaps slow them down a tad.

Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Jericoke

Re: Mercedes W11
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2020, 03:40:13 PM »

The minimum weight of the cars will also increase for 2021, rising from 746kg to 749kg.


So my holiday weight gain is really just adhering to FIA rules

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Mercedes W11
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2020, 05:08:04 PM »
 :DD :DD :DD

You and me both!
Lonny

Online John S

Re: Mercedes W11
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2020, 08:02:20 PM »
Hey guys count me in on this.  :DD :DD :DD

I'm hoping to get the next size belt from St Nick as it wont do up like it used too.  :-[  :swoon:
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline jimclark

Re: Mercedes W11
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2020, 07:25:32 PM »
A new handicap system for aerodynamic testing will also be introduced in 2021, operating on a sliding scale that reduces the amount of windtunnel time for the leading teams in the constructors' championship.

How much difference this will make to outright pace is an unknown, however the object of the changes is to stop them going even faster and perhaps slow them down a tad.

The last bastion of real auto racing is gone now too, eh?  :o

Fuuuuuuu......dge. I never thought I'd see the day. BoPing in F1 now too??? So much for the pinnacle.......sacrilege......  :(

Auto racing is going head first...... It's all becoming a fictional racing "show"....no longer a true sport.

What's next? 'Show not good enough? Gotta maintain parity, forget competition and striving to succeed, right?
We'll just "level the playing field", right?......

Runners? Run too fast? Ankle weights.
Bowlers? Too good? Mandatory smaller, lighter, ball.
Sailing? No, no, no, no. Smaller sails for you.
You name it, we can punish and remove excellence in the name of the "orchestrated show".......:'(

Wrong! The regulations being the same for everyone are supposed to be the level playing field.
Off to the movies from now on, at least they don't pretend to be real......

« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 07:41:42 PM by jimclark »
"Those were the days my friends. We thought they'd never end..."

jimclark

Offline Andy B

Re: Mercedes W11
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2020, 09:07:48 PM »
The 2021 cars will have some changes, for a start Merc's DAS system is outlawed and then there are new tyres from Pirelli to get to grips with.


I believe that the tyres for 2021 are the same as 2020 and 2019 so Pirelli do not have the expense of new tyres for one year this is also why the downforce has been reduced to help preserve the tyres.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Online John S

Re: Mercedes W11
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2020, 01:34:42 PM »

I believe that the tyres for 2021 are the same as 2020 and 2019 so Pirelli do not have the expense of new tyres for one year this is also why the downforce has been reduced to help preserve the tyres.

You could be right Andy, but what tyres were they testing then in the last few races in Practice sessions?  :confused:

Can't be 2022 tyres surely, as I think they will be on the bigger 18"rims with low profile tyres at the introduction of the all new breed of chassis in 22 season.
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Jericoke

Re: Mercedes W11
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2020, 03:12:03 PM »
A new handicap system for aerodynamic testing will also be introduced in 2021, operating on a sliding scale that reduces the amount of windtunnel time for the leading teams in the constructors' championship.

How much difference this will make to outright pace is an unknown, however the object of the changes is to stop them going even faster and perhaps slow them down a tad.

The last bastion of real auto racing is gone now too, eh?  :o

Fuuuuuuu......dge. I never thought I'd see the day. BoPing in F1 now too??? So much for the pinnacle.......sacrilege......  :(

Auto racing is going head first...... It's all becoming a fictional racing "show"....no longer a true sport.

What's next? 'Show not good enough? Gotta maintain parity, forget competition and striving to succeed, right?
We'll just "level the playing field", right?......

Runners? Run too fast? Ankle weights.
Bowlers? Too good? Mandatory smaller, lighter, ball.
Sailing? No, no, no, no. Smaller sails for you.
You name it, we can punish and remove excellence in the name of the "orchestrated show".......:'(

Wrong! The regulations being the same for everyone are supposed to be the level playing field.
Off to the movies from now on, at least they don't pretend to be real......

F1 is being run by an American company.  American professional sports are heavy into 'handicapping' for the health of the sport.  The NFL is the gold standard for creating parity, and yet the same 'powers' continue to win.  A strong organisation that can overcome handicapping is far more interesting than one team simply spending the competition into the ground.

Offline jimclark

Re: Mercedes W11
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2020, 04:47:03 PM »
Those rules don't change from performance to performance as is happening in auto racing (Le Mans for example.....BoPing right during the week of the event....). You're example of handicapping is the same all season(s) long which is a known playing field, not one that changes mid season, again for the benefit of the show.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Controlling the competition by punishing the successful. Those that are very good deserve their rewards; not to be diminished for sake of the show. It's no longer true sport when you slow (improvement or speed) those that are on top for the benefit of the show.....plain old entertainment, not competition in a given sport.


I understand the financial aspect of the activity and I am aware that are many that will still be entertained and ignore the orchestration.
I having participated in all sorts of racing (and outside racing, things I've done along the way to support myself) and would not have been pleased if I was "handicapped" at times because I was more successful than others.
I also did not cry foul when I was not performing as well as others. I dug deeper and strived to do better.

To each his own, but I will always call things what they are, not try to convince myself that they are what they are not. :)
« Last Edit: December 26, 2020, 04:50:32 PM by jimclark »
"Those were the days my friends. We thought they'd never end..."

jimclark

Offline Andy B

Re: Mercedes W11
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2020, 11:34:49 PM »

I believe that the tyres for 2021 are the same as 2020 and 2019 so Pirelli do not have the expense of new tyres for one year this is also why the downforce has been reduced to help preserve the tyres.

You could be right Andy, but what tyres were they testing then in the last few races in Practice sessions?  :confused:

Can't be 2022 tyres surely, as I think they will be on the bigger 18"rims with low profile tyres at the introduction of the all new breed of chassis in 22 season.

I had read recently that they were continuing with the 2019/20 tyres to save Pirelli the expense of producing a new tyre especially after the complaints by the drivers over the tested tyres and with the 18" rims for 2022.
Pirelli says it will press ahead with plans to introduce a new tyre design for 2021, despite criticism from Formula 1 drivers.

Mario Isola, Pirelli's motorsport boss, told BBC Sport introducing the tyre was "the right decision" for next season.

Drivers complained the new tyres were slower, heavier and had worse handling than the 2020 tyres after testing them in practice at the Bahrain Grand Prix.

Isola said they were needed to reduce the risk of stress-induced failures.

A number of drivers have suffered tyre failures in races this year.

Some have been traced to external factors, while others have been caused by the extreme loads generated by F1 cars, particularly the incident in which world champion Lewis Hamilton finished the British Grand Prix on three wheels after a front tyre collapsed on the final lap.

Hamilton's Mercedes team-mate Valtteri Bottas and McLaren's Carlos Sainz suffered the same failure in the race for the same reasons.

Pirelli has increased the inflation pressure in the tyres to make them more robust, but has designed a new construction for 2021 that increases structural integrity and can be run at lower pressures.

Hamilton, Red Bull's Max Verstappen and Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel all said after trying the new tyres in Bahrain they hoped they would not be used again, and a number of other drivers expressed their dissatisfaction.

But Isola said the idea was to "improve the level of integrity" of the tyres amid the expectation of faster cars next year, rather than improving performance, and that the new design was "the right way to go".

Isola added: "I need to understand first of all which are the main elements that are being criticised by the drivers.

"I would be very happy to talk to each of them to understand where we should touch something on the specification to make a tyre that is more in line with their specification, but it's very late."

He emphasised that the deadline by which the tyre design had to be submitted to governing body the FIA had passed on 1 November.

Lewis Hamilton to miss Sakhir Grand Prix with Covid-19
Romain Grosjean wants to return at Abu Dhabi Grand Prix
Haas sign Nikita Mazepin for 2021 on 'multi-year deal'
Isola admitted the new tyres reduced cornering performance, saying the difference was about 0.6-0.7secs, and emphasised the different shape of the new front tyres would probably have affected aerodynamics of the cars, reducing grip.

He said he was sure teams would be able to recover some of the lost lap time once they fine-tuned the cars to the tyres, but added: "That's not the target; that's not the point."

Copied from BBC.
Pirelli says it will press ahead with plans to introduce a new tyre design for 2021, despite criticism from Formula 1 drivers.

Mario Isola, Pirelli's motorsport boss, told BBC Sport introducing the tyre was "the right decision" for next season.

Drivers complained the new tyres were slower, heavier and had worse handling than the 2020 tyres after testing them in practice at the Bahrain Grand Prix.

Isola said they were needed to reduce the risk of stress-induced failures.

A number of drivers have suffered tyre failures in races this year.

Some have been traced to external factors, while others have been caused by the extreme loads generated by F1 cars, particularly the incident in which world champion Lewis Hamilton finished the British Grand Prix on three wheels after a front tyre collapsed on the final lap.

Hamilton's Mercedes team-mate Valtteri Bottas and McLaren's Carlos Sainz suffered the same failure in the race for the same reasons.

Pirelli has increased the inflation pressure in the tyres to make them more robust, but has designed a new construction for 2021 that increases structural integrity and can be run at lower pressures.

Hamilton, Red Bull's Max Verstappen and Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel all said after trying the new tyres in Bahrain they hoped they would not be used again, and a number of other drivers expressed their dissatisfaction.

But Isola said the idea was to "improve the level of integrity" of the tyres amid the expectation of faster cars next year, rather than improving performance, and that the new design was "the right way to go".

Isola added: "I need to understand first of all which are the main elements that are being criticised by the drivers.

"I would be very happy to talk to each of them to understand where we should touch something on the specification to make a tyre that is more in line with their specification, but it's very late."

He emphasised that the deadline by which the tyre design had to be submitted to governing body the FIA had passed on 1 November.

Lewis Hamilton to miss Sakhir Grand Prix with Covid-19
Romain Grosjean wants to return at Abu Dhabi Grand Prix
Haas sign Nikita Mazepin for 2021 on 'multi-year deal'
Isola admitted the new tyres reduced cornering performance, saying the difference was about 0.6-0.7secs, and emphasised the different shape of the new front tyres would probably have affected aerodynamics of the cars, reducing grip.

He said he was sure teams would be able to recover some of the lost lap time once they fine-tuned the cars to the tyres, but added: "That's not the target; that's not the point."

There is a second test of the new tyres planned for practice at the final race of the season in Abu Dhabi on 13-15 December.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal
Menu Editor Pro 1.0 | Copyright 2013, Matthew Kerle