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Author Topic: Say it's isn't true  (Read 1468 times)

Offline Dare



"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Say it's isn't true
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2021, 02:50:39 AM »
This points to a business rule I've noticed in other areas, a new customer is more valuable than a current customer. F1 is hoping to attract new fans with what they hope is a more exciting format and to hell with long time fans who just see another gimmick.
Lonny

Offline Jericoke

Re: Say it's isn't true
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2021, 04:23:14 AM »
This points to a business rule I've noticed in other areas, a new customer is more valuable than a current customer. F1 is hoping to attract new fans with what they hope is a more exciting format and to hell with long time fans who just see another gimmick.

Growth is good.

Viewers who are looking for a spectacle will soon move on.  (Ask NASCAR who in 10 years went from building as many tracks as possible to taking seats out of their 'big' events so they could sell out at half capacity)

I think F1 is right to grow by going to different countries and courting sponsors, like Red Bull, who can bring a fan base.

With that said, I'm curious to see how these sprints play out.  If it gets attendance up for the promoters, that's a good thing.  It might make some of the 'smaller/classic' venues more profitable.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Say it's isn't true
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2021, 01:57:44 PM »
F1 already does figure 8 racing in its own way. It's called Suzuka ;)

This feels like the solution to a problem F1 doesn't have, that will only cause more problems in its wake. My main objection is that the format, in every iteration I've heard, is easily gamed, making some rounds less important than others from the outset and therefore not taken with due seriousness. I'm expecting another version of Silverstone 2004 qualifying (where the forecast was for a wet second qualifying, therefore most of the frontrunners deliberately proceeded as slowly as possible and Minardi got provisional pole. The second qualifying session was dry, normal service resumed and the format was changed as soon as possible thereafter. Of course, this being the FIA we discuss, it took two more goes to fix the problem...)
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline cosworth151

Re: Say it's isn't true
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2021, 03:17:32 PM »
The NASCAR example is on point. They made massive changes to attract new fans. Scrapping popular, long standing venues for cookie cutter Charlotte clones in "destination cities," spec racer cars, gimmick rules (do any of these sound familiar?) They attracted new "fad fans" but drove off a fair chunk of their base. Now the fad fans have moved on to the next fad leaving a much smaller hard core base.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Say it's isn't true
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2021, 03:31:55 PM »
Didn't Liberty learn from their previous actions that F1 is a global sport and has to appeal globally, not just to one (admittedly big) section of the potential audience?
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline John S

Re: Say it's isn't true
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2021, 07:04:03 PM »
Have I missed something here? surely 2 races at a race weekend with full Quali, albeit on Fri, seems like a good deal to me.

No one is suggesting cancelling the Sunday race so I really can't see how this is a dilution of the ethos. I find it more troubling that the FIA has taken away practice time this year at every race, meaning my enjoyment and cost of coverage on pay TV has been quite substantially changed.

If F1 still ran to the same rules as 1950 I could see the historic objection, but in reality everything except the Sunday race is now different, this is just another trial iteration. You never know we may all get to like this extra race. 
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Dare

Re: Say it's isn't true
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2021, 12:38:44 AM »
Have I missed something here? surely 2 races at a race weekend with full Quali, albeit on Fri, seems like a good deal to me.

No one is suggesting cancelling the Sunday race so I really can't see how this is a dilution of the ethos. I find it more troubling that the FIA has taken away practice time this year at every race, meaning my enjoyment and cost of coverage on pay TV has been quite substantially changed.

If F1 still ran to the same rules as 1950 I could see the historic objection, but in reality everything except the Sunday race is now different, this is just another trial iteration. You never know we may all get to like this extra race.


Too me it's like in the Olympics' having a couple
of 50 meter races the day before the main 100 meter race.
What's the point



"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline Andy B

Re: Say it's isn't true
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2021, 07:38:20 AM »
Have I missed something here? surely 2 races at a race weekend with full Quali, albeit on Fri, seems like a good deal to me.

No one is suggesting cancelling the Sunday race so I really can't see how this is a dilution of the ethos. I find it more troubling that the FIA has taken away practice time this year at every race, meaning my enjoyment and cost of coverage on pay TV has been quite substantially changed.

If F1 still ran to the same rules as 1950 I could see the historic objection, but in reality everything except the Sunday race is now different, this is just another trial iteration. You never know we may all get to like this extra race.


Too me it's like in the Olympics' having a couple
of 50 meter races the day before the main 100 meter race.
What's the point

I quite agree and if a driver is injured or a car damaged enough to not be able to race on Sunday what's the point.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline John S

Re: Say it's isn't true
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2021, 09:39:52 PM »
Have I missed something here? surely 2 races at a race weekend with full Quali, albeit on Fri, seems like a good deal to me.

No one is suggesting cancelling the Sunday race so I really can't see how this is a dilution of the ethos. I find it more troubling that the FIA has taken away practice time this year at every race, meaning my enjoyment and cost of coverage on pay TV has been quite substantially changed.

If F1 still ran to the same rules as 1950 I could see the historic objection, but in reality everything except the Sunday race is now different, this is just another trial iteration. You never know we may all get to like this extra race.


Too me it's like in the Olympics' having a couple
of 50 meter races the day before the main 100 meter race.
What's the point

I quite agree and if a driver is injured or a car damaged enough to not be able to race on Sunday what's the point.

As they say in France Andy - C'est la vie.

If a car gets smashed up they rebuild it, just as they do if it gets totalled in Quali, or even practice.

Oh and Dare, they always hold build up races in the Olympics, they're called 'heats'.  ;)
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Andy B

Re: Say it's isn't true
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2021, 11:36:15 PM »
I still don't have to like it John and the difference between the Olympic heats and F1 is there is only room for 8 runners so the heats are needed a sprint race in F1 is not.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline Dare

Re: Say it's isn't true
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2021, 11:44:08 PM »
And the heat races are 100 meters and that's how you
advance to the finals.

I was a little worried when someone agreed with me.
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline monty

Re: Say it's isn't true
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2021, 09:46:24 AM »
I love watching racing so sprint races are not a total disaster as far as I am concerned. However, they would have to do something to make the sprint race different to the main race. In World Superbike they do this by having a completely different tyre for the sprint race. The outcome can result in different bike/rider performances between the sprint race and the main race. In F1 they could have different 'sprint tyres' plus they could chose to run old engines turned up to 11 in a 'win or explode' approach (this would only be true if the race was for half points and didn't change qualifying for the main race).
I doubt it will happen but I also think they need to make F1 more interesting for a wider audience.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Say it's isn't true
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2021, 07:27:50 PM »
Have I missed something here? surely 2 races at a race weekend with full Quali, albeit on Fri, seems like a good deal to me.

More like a race and a gamed gimmick event (since most racers will have incentive to do less than their best), with qualifying a glorified practise session (and an actual practise session removed). In other words, it would be less for my time investment.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Andy B

Re: Say it's isn't true
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2021, 08:01:18 PM »
From Planet F1 and why we should not have Sprint Races and you have to agree that they have very good points.

https://www.planetf1.com/features/formula-1-sprint-races-unnecessary/
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

 


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