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Author Topic: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action  (Read 918 times)

Online monty

Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« on: July 21, 2021, 08:30:58 AM »
https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-no-revenge-maybe-legal-action/
Does this horrible little man not realise how ridiculous he sounds and what damage he is doing to the RBR brand.
Surely he has walked around enough tracks to know 'Motor Racing is dangerous' - after all every fence has a sign telling you that!
It is even worse that he blindly defends everything his driver does when everyone (even his fans) accept that Max is one of the most aggressive and therefore dangerous drivers ever to be on F1 tracks!



Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2021, 09:39:08 AM »
If R/B were to find some obscure legal point and sue Hamilton and maybe Merc, winning that lawsuit would end racing. No driver could get insurance to cover liability in a situation like that so they wouldn't dare to pass.
Lonny

Offline John S

Re: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2021, 10:23:45 AM »
To add to this seemingly endless controversy Red Bull now claim to have data on Lewis entry speed at the fateful corner, and it may, I say may, lend credence for challenge that Lewis was possibly over the limit with his entry speed.

This quote from Martin Brundle, in the main article below, I feel gets to the heart of RBRs consternation:-
 
"I have been told by Red Bull that there is data that they can use to prove that Hamilton went into Copse Corner significantly faster than at any other time and that he could not have made the corner without going wide and inevitably tapping Verstappen in the end."

I guess also with Merc having been uber active in tightening rear wing testing, to financial detriment of admittedly more than just RBR, the Bulls may be feeling constrained by cost cap with this additional loss of a car (approx £750k) in bringing more updates later in season, and therefore see 25 points loss to Lewis/Merc as more significant/damaging than we do.

Peculiar Irony; if it happened in Sprint race they would have been able to gain money back.  :D

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89681/red-bull-have-crash-data-that-will-allow-them-to-blame-hamilton.html
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline cosworth151

Re: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2021, 02:00:58 PM »
Oh, I'm sure RBR can create introduce data to prove that it was Hamilton's fault. Give me a day or two & I'll show you data to prove that it was Fangio's fault.  ;)
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline rmassart

Re: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2021, 02:07:00 PM »
"I have been told by Red Bull that there is data that they can use to prove that Hamilton went into Copse Corner significantly faster than at any other time and that he could not have made the corner without going wide and inevitably tapping Verstappen in the end."

If that is so obvious why did Verstappen not back off, wait for Hamilton to go wide and then dive down the inside. The fact that Hamilton was faster at that point in the corner than on other laps is surely clear. How else can he attempt to overtake? By going slower than usual?

This is a racing incident, possibly a mistake by Hamilton (I don't agree), but it is not done on purpose. Doing this on purpose would run the risk of both drivers retiring, which is not something that would help Hamilton a lot.

The point about Budgets is interesting though. Maybe the rules will change in future so that if a team is clearly at fault for causing a write off of another teams car, the penalty will not be in points, but a budget transfer from one team to another!

Offline Willy

Re: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2021, 02:37:44 PM »
That little troll Marko is opening his mouth again and allowed vile crap to spew out.
I don't know (or care) if he raced, but if he did, he knows a racing incident when he sees it.
He is stirring the pot as it generates a media frenzy that focuses on RB and is good for their sponsors as well.
Lonny makes a great point that if this is allowed to go further, it will kill racing.

Offline John S

Re: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2021, 05:52:38 PM »
If R/B were to find some obscure legal point and sue Hamilton and maybe Merc, winning that lawsuit would end racing. No driver could get insurance to cover liability in a situation like that so they wouldn't dare to pass.

Not sure they can or want to insure F1 cars Lonny, teams construct the cars themselves and only buy in certain items, premiums may exceed expected season repair bills in case teams use insurance income as a way to keep their business afloat. 
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Online Andy B

Re: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2021, 10:27:09 PM »
Mmmm! Bad losers comes to mind with RBR although it'll be interesting to see the body language between LH and MV.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2021, 12:03:15 AM »
If R/B were to find some obscure legal point and sue Hamilton and maybe Merc, winning that lawsuit would end racing. No driver could get insurance to cover liability in a situation like that so they wouldn't dare to pass.

Not sure they can or want to insure F1 cars Lonny, teams construct the cars themselves and only buy in certain items, premiums may exceed expected season repair bills in case teams use insurance income as a way to keep their business afloat.

They would either need liability insurance, in this instance for Merc to cover R/B's damage, or they would have to tippy toe around to avoid all contact. If a court held Hammy and Merc liable here, I'm sure Merc would withdraw from F1. It would no longer be cost effective.
Lonny

Online monty

Re: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2021, 08:25:25 AM »
As always with this group there are some really good points made and I am glad to read that most people feel that racing incidents are a fact of motor racing life!

I also saw:
Quote
"I have been told by Red Bull that there is data that they can use to prove that Hamilton went into Copse Corner significantly faster than at any other time and that he could not have made the corner without going wide and inevitably tapping Verstappen in the end."
What utter nonsense!!!!. There can be no data that dial in the drivers decision making and skill. Hamilton may not of made the normal approach to the apex so it was Verstappen's job to take a different line himself. He knew Hamilton was there but he still turned in. As Alonso has said; 'what was Hamilton meant to do; simply vanish?'
The phrase, 'caused an avoidable accident' really annoys me. Verstappen could have avoided the accident by not turning in (in my opinion he caused the accident by turning in but that is just one opinion). By definition, an accident is just that! Anything is avoidable; don't join the track and you will avoid an accident at the first corner; duh!
Either they are encouraged to race (which will involve a few 'touches') or they are told never to take risks which will mean even less overtaking. Verstappen has been the most aggressive of drivers in recent history; he has forced many drivers off track, including Hamilton. I complained about those moves but nothing was done. Then Hamilton goes for a 50/50 move and RBR are threatening legal action. It is sick!
Rant over  :DD

Offline John S

Re: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2021, 09:16:10 AM »
If R/B were to find some obscure legal point and sue Hamilton and maybe Merc, winning that lawsuit would end racing. No driver could get insurance to cover liability in a situation like that so they wouldn't dare to pass.

Not sure they can or want to insure F1 cars Lonny, teams construct the cars themselves and only buy in certain items, premiums may exceed expected season repair bills in case teams use insurance income as a way to keep their business afloat.

I read Marko's comments as the Red Bull Lawyer is looking into appealing the punishment handed out by the Stewards. For this you have to prove new evidence which can be hard but not impossible when Lawyers bicker all the time about points of law concerning the wording of anything.

Failing a harsher penalty they may try to force a change in the rules for the future. If this is the case I hope they remember the old adage - 'Be carful what you wish for' - invariably it can come back to bite you.

Think they know it's a hiding to nothing to try to get Merc to pay for damage, but it must hurt the cost cap when shunts like this write off a car. However I'm sure it's the big gain of easy points by Merc, as they see it, that's bugging Marko & probably Mateschitz - the ultimate bill payer. 
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline cosworth151

Re: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2021, 01:45:31 PM »
It may just be because I live in the most litigious country on the planet, but every time I've ever taken a car on a race track, I had to sign a multi-page waiver. When I was racing in a car that I owned, I had to sign an equally large owner's waiver. Put simply, it said that I was solely responsible for anything that happened to me or my property. I waived any right to sue anybody about anything that happened there.

This is from a recent track day waiver I still have on this PC from earlier this year. This part was in bold type, all caps:

Quote
I HEREBY ASSUME FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY RISK OF BODILY INJURY OR DEATH, OR PROPERTY DAMAGE, ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO, THE DRIVING OR USE OF THE RACING CARS OR ANY OTHER VEHICLES OWNED BY MYSELF OR OPERATED BY OTHERS, WHETHER CAUSED BY MY NEGLIGENCE OR BY THE NEGLIGENCE OF OTHERS, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY CONDUCT, ACTION OR LACK OF ACTION INCLUDING THE NEGLIGENCE OF PTD.

Note: PTD was the organizer of the track day.

I can't imagine that F1's phalanx of lawyers don't have similar documents to cover its backside.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Scott

Re: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2021, 06:00:07 PM »
I think Monty’s point is significant - Marko could damage the Red Bull brand with this sort of thing.  I wonder when the Red Bull communications team will overrule the race team (Marko) in the name of the brand.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2021, 11:27:31 PM »
Don't want to predict how European courts will rule, but if R/B wanted to change the penalty Hamilton received, US courts would not interfere. I don't remember the exact case, but essentially the courts ruled that by entering you agreed to play by their rules. The organizing body therefore has the final say, case dismissed.
Lonny

Offline John S

Re: Marko: No on-track revenge but maybe legal action
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2021, 11:33:50 AM »
But Lonny they are still seeking to appeal the penalty under the FIA system, that's what is really being talked about. Red Bull can't take it further until they have exhausted all the legal challenges that might possibly be made through FIA or World Motor Sports Council.
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

 


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